Disarming The Word "Mormon In The Bible Belt

The word “Mormon” can end a conversation before it even starts, especially in the Bible Belt where labels often come loaded. We sit down with Frank Sikes (our Baptist friend) alongside Kenny O'bara and Joey Cornette to talk plainly about what people mean when they say “Mormon,” why The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has pushed back on the nickname in recent years, and how identity language can either build a bridge or throw up a wall. If you’ve ever wondered whether Latter-day Saints see themselves as Christian, or why the name matters so much, you’ll get a clear answer from local Latter-Day Saints living in the south.

From there we go deeper than vocabulary. We talk about the difference between sincere questions and “gotcha” debates, how to stay calm when someone attacks your faith, and why judging by “fruits” (love, service, sacrifice, integrity) is a better test than rumor. We also unpack why the LDS Church can look “too organized” to outsiders, how ministering and priesthood blessings work in real life, and why that structure often shows up as practical care when someone is struggling.

We also tackle a common flashpoint: Galatians 1:8. We discuss context, what Paul is correcting, what “another gospel” means, and why ongoing revelation is part of the New Testament world Paul lived in. And we spend time on missionaries: not as online debate objects, but as young people making a serious sacrifice for Jesus Christ and learning life skills through constant rejection and service.

If you enjoy thoughtful interfaith dialogue, Christian unity conversations, and real-world discussions about LDS beliefs and misconceptions, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s your experience with the term “Mormon,” and has it ever changed how you saw someone’s faith?

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Transcript

Division, Discipleship, And The Adversary

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And what I say to people is if you hate me because of my faith or my religion or whatever, then you are serving the adversary. That's exactly what the devil wants is to divide us so that instead of us coming together in mutual respect and and discussing Christ and the love, the perfect love that he had and the sacrifice that he made for us, not just on the cross, but in the Garden of Gethsemane, you know, the pain that he went through there. You know, if if you hate me because I'm just not of your denomination, then you're not serving Christ, you're serving the adversary.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

So I feel like if I came here the first time with this chip on my shoulder to come at you guys aggressively and tell you how you're wrong, guess what? I'm not gonna learn anything from you. And you guys are gonna learn from me whether you like it or not, because we're gonna have conversation and mutual respect.

SPEAKER_06 1:14

I feel like that is the reason why I think it's it's really it should be really important for all people who consider themselves to be disciples of Jesus Christ to come together rather than fighting amongst ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:33

Because there's there's a whole evil world out there that hates all of us equally.

Why Talk About The Word Mormon

SPEAKER_05 1:42

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Jackson Howe podcast. On this recording, we sit down with Frank Sykes, Kenny Obera, and Joey Cornette. In this episode, we are engaging in conversation about the term, the word Mormon, and some of the beliefs that Mormons or members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have. The purpose and the effort in this conversation is to help break down that barrier or disarm the word Mormon, especially here in the Bible Belt. Uh we have Frank Sykes on. He is a Baptist in the area. And then we have Kenny O'Bara, Joey Cornet, and myself, all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Hope you enjoyed the episode. If you watch it on YouTube, be sure and hit that subscribe button, hit that notification bell. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple, be sure and leave us a review and rating. And then, of course, on Facebook, hit that subscribe button as well. On all the platforms, you can engage in conversation by leaving your comments and thoughts, and we encourage them and hope that you will do so. Enjoy the episode, and we'll see you on the other side. Good to be with you. We have our favorite Baptist back with us, Frank Sykes. I'm the only Baptist. And we've actually got somebody else in the studio for the first time. Uh Joey Cornette. Good to have you.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 3:25

So uh we are we are back, and we're gonna start out by uh doing a little uh little intro here. Have you ever heard of uh Tails?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

I don't think I don't think I have I think I have before now, okay. It's a conversation starter, dude. Yeah, absolutely. It is a conversation starter. To start this out, we are going to uh do a little advertising here and see if we can get on as a sponsor. But uh I'm gonna ask a question here and let's see

Icebreaker: Which Year To Relive

SPEAKER_05 3:57

here. First one if you could relive any year of your life, which would it be?

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Of all the thousands of years I feel like I have lived, I would say last year. Um you know, life's a roller coaster, up and down, but I had an extreme high last year. Um a lot of bad things in my life turned to good. I got married to the person I was supposed to be with. I got married to the person that is my friend. We get along. Um I was almost anti-marriage just because of the way life has treated me.

SPEAKER_06 4:41

But you got a good one. I I can I can vouch for you. These guys know my life.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

She is rare, she is she is my wife is awesome, and she plays bass really good. I know and she sings, but she won't. Um so I feel like that was a blessing for me. Um, my life sort of I I had good times, bad times, whatever, but it seems like my life sort of got structured, everything came together. Um things just started going my way. And and I started to see things that I've worked for decades starting to come to fruition. Um and and it was just such a great year. A great year to be blessed. It was such a great year that yes, there was bad things, it was bad times, it was, but it was such a positive year for me. And and I and I remember ending the year thankful. I remember ending the year going, wow, what a turn. You know, and and you you think life's over, you think this is it, this is as good as it gets, it doesn't. There's better things coming, but you can peak at 44. You know what I mean? You you know, it's there's plenty of good life to be left. Lived. There's plenty of good left, and and and it was so just I can't explain enough how I used to watch other people and seem like they had such a great life. And I feel like mine's better. I really feel like my life has I have been truly blessed more than I can express. That's awesome. That's a good one to relive right there.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

Guinea Joe, y'all want to answer that one, or you want to go try another one?

SPEAKER_06 6:33

Um I think I I honestly I probably uh uh a year, like one one year, probably 1992. I don't know, because after after I graduated high school, so that's telling how my age now, how old I am, graduated in 1991. Oh gosh. But um so yeah, after I graduated high school, that was a really honestly a really fun year. I had had a lot of you know a lot of a lot of jamming at parties. Yeah, you were you were just Frank was just a kid then, but but uh it was a fun year, but at the same time, it was that was one of those years where it's like I could have I could have done a lot better with a lot of things rather than just focusing on everything being a good time. So that's the first thing that pops in my mind.

SPEAKER_07 7:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 7:34

Very good.

SPEAKER_05 7:35

Joey, you want to take a stab at it or you want to go for the next one?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Uh for me it'd be it's it's a toss-up between uh 2003 when I got my first bike. Um or uh when when I got married in the temple uh that year. Um you know, for multiple reasons, getting married to and sell to my eternal companion. Uh but uh also that same year uh went back to the temple for the first time for someone else, and uh probably had one of the most profound spiritual experiences that I've ever had. I mean it was physical, and uh and I just that was that was a pretty special moment for me.

SPEAKER_05 8:20

So what about you? Uh a year that I could relive? So my my mind goes to something that maybe I wish I would have, you know, would have done uh you know differently. Um you know, uh I think if I could go if I could go back and relive a year, it would probably be the year after I the year that I came home from from my mission and uh would have relived in setting out my my course, my direction in in life. Uh, because that's kind of where it where it all started. Uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

So you think we think you could have done it better?

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Like absolutely. Okay. Take take the wisdom I have now at 48. Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 9:08

Go all the way back to when I'm 21 and start uh isn't isn't that everybody's dream though that one after you reach a certain age, you're like, man, if I could go back to like being 19 with knowing what I know now, man, I would take over the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

But it's not about that. We're all young and dumb. It's not about that because the things that

Purpose, Aging, And Refusing To Quit

SPEAKER_03 9:28

happened to you have made you who you are today. And a saying that I always say to people, because uh uh I hear people complain all that is my job in this world is to hear people complain about how horrible their lives are.

SPEAKER_06 9:43

That's Frank's calling in in life. That's and reason for being on this earth.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

I I've I've told someone, I said, when you have more memories and you have plans, your life's over. Period. I'm in my mid-40s and I I'm not being funny. I feel like I'm at my peak. Yeah. You know, yes, I hurt when I get out of bed and I've got a bad back and bad knees, but overall, spiritually, mentally, physically, uh financially, I'm the best I've ever been with everything together. And that is something I'm very thankful for. And I think a lot of people lose that because they get to a certain age and they're finished because in their mind they are finished. And I refuse to do that. My wife says that I'm uh um the singer from the Rolling Stones. Uh Mick Jagger. Mick Jagger. She's like, you know, Mick Jagger's like 88, and you I don't walk like this, like he does. But she says, she's like, you're gonna be like Mick Jagger. You're gonna be still doing something in your 80s, and I'm telling you, you will have so much of a better life if you have that mentality. Because if you think you're done, you are. You know, if you think you've lost, you have. I don't I don't know where to go with that. I just that's my philosophy.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

That's why I took that question. Like uh that's why that my answer was like that, is because there's really not a whole lot. I'm sure there are things I could say that I would want to change, but I think I'd rather relive a good happy moment.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yes, exactly. I wouldn't change anything that's happened. I've had Kenny knows, I've had really bad things happen to me, even in recent years. But I'm telling you, it's if you if you have faith, you know you're going to be okay. I always say life is like ripping off a band aid, it's gonna sting, but you're gonna be okay. And guess what? If you're not, that's because you're moving on to the to the afterlife. You know what I mean? But you're gonna be fine. And and and not to be Mr. Positive here, but they know we need that. But you know, Kenny calls me Mr. Rainbow and Sunshines or something like that, whatever you called me.

SPEAKER_06 11:54

Sunshine I remember, you're you made of uh candy the mighty boosh quote, you have a candy floss.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

He's a friend's made of candy floss, he's always Mr. Positive about everything. I'm like, dude, life is gonna be tough. You can at least have a good attitude about it and laugh it off. That's right. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_06 12:09

And I've heard I've heard a lot of people say too, older people say that tell me that they didn't get old until they retired. Yeah. You know, as long as long as they're yeah busy and they're they're getting up in the morning, they've they feel like they've got a sense of purpose and and you know something that they need to do, and they're then they're they're you know, you still got youth, you know, you still got energy, but you know, when you stop moving, when you become sedentary, that's that's when they start to decline. So yeah.

Loss, Mortality, And Peace After Death

SPEAKER_03 12:35

I recently had a very good friend of mine pass away, and you guys know who he is, and he played in a band with me, and we got to get up and play a show. And it was odd to me. I got up and I sang the songs that he sang, that he wrote. I played the guitar, I even played his guitar. Mine ironically stopped working. My guitar that never stops working stopped working in the middle of a set, right before I played a song that he wrote, and I picked it up and his guitar was there on display. It wasn't supposed to be played. I just picked it up and it just boom, it just worked, and it just exploded. And and and I'm telling that's a side story, but the thing about I was yes, I was sad, but when you get to our age, people start passing away. And that's part of life. We're all there's gonna be a time that all four of us in this room are gonna be gone from this earth. But the thing about it is I found solitude and knowing, I mean, solitude may be the wrong word, but I found solace, maybe solace. Sorry. You're the smart one. Like Josh. You're the smart one. Josh's kid, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

So solitude, I'm by myself. Um so um find solace there, too.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah, I know. So so I got to thinking, I said, you know, and I uh and I came to reality with my my with my own uh uh mortality, and I was thinking, what a peaceful thing when you die. I know this is a total side story, but I I actually didn't feel pity for my friend anymore. I was like, he was a Christian, he's moved on, he is he doesn't want to come back, and I know everybody says that to you, like he would never come back. Yeah, and uh but it's made me to to to backtrack to what I said a minute ago, it's sort of put me back on the rails of you know, I'm not done. There's plenty to do. There's uh, you know, you know how random I am. You're like, you never know, Frank's just gonna build skyscrapers tomorrow or whatever. Frank's always got life about.

SPEAKER_06 14:44

Yeah, you got 10 different businesses at any given time, and tomorrow it's not necessarily going to be the same 10 businesses.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Well, that's what to tie it all together. I was like, it life doesn't stop until you die. You know what I mean? You keep growing emotionally, spiritually, you you grow uh financially, friendships, you keep growing, and and you never really die, you know.

SPEAKER_05 15:08

Um, yep, yeah. I mean that's that's what this life is is about, you know, growing, progressing, improving, learning.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah, it really is.

Working Together And Talking Faith Daily

SPEAKER_03 15:16

And and by the way, speaking of businesses, Joey and I have a business now. We have been working. That's why I have pain all over me. I didn't even I came straight from work, I was in an attic two hours ago or three hours ago. So we haven't stopped.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

But heck, the only reason why I could get cleaned up is because I live right on the road.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Yeah, and it's going like I said earlier, I can't escape the Mormons. Now they work with me. That's right, they've infiltrated me. And it's and it and it's and it's funny because at work, Joey and I will have religious discussions all day long. And remember the first time I came, and we'll get into all the comments, but the first time I came, I said, you know, uh um Mormons don't talk about their faith a lot. Joey does. We don't care who's around. I mean, we just have discussion. We were doing it today, you know what I mean? And it's and it's cool to be able to have that discussion. And I that's sort of what we were trying to accomplish the first time. You know what I mean? Is like, hey, we actually learned, I've learned a lot from Joey in the last month, you know what I mean, uh, of things that we've discussed. And it's it's funny the parallels between our faiths.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Oh, yeah. I I do want to say that there's there there's more than people realize.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Yeah, and I'm not trying to make a Mormon infomercial here, right? I'm trying to say, you know, it's it's it's eye-opening because once again, the Mormons seem really weird at first until you start to find, wait a minute, it's this, it's just this, it's just this because when I got back online and started reading comments from our first show, I was like, that's the people I always listen to. That's the people that always something that I wrote, Joey said this at work one day. I was saying about the the hand, remember on the first uh the the first time I came, I said uh I said people hardly ever leave the LDS church. But when they do, they want you to know. It's like it's like someone that is vegan, like, I just want you to know I left the LDS church, and I'm gonna tell you why, even though you asked for a sweet tea. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 17:37

I'm gonna tell you that becomes their whole identity. Yeah, there's people who build their whole YouTube channel around that and every yeah, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

So Joey said it's funny because ex-Mormons are are actually more of a cult. So it says Mormons are a cult. He said, No, that's ex-Mormons.

Mormon, LDS, And Centering Jesus

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Ex-Mormons are the cult because they they're just like um and and in the comments, someone said to please stop saying the word Mormon that it was a bad word. Is that true? How did you guys feel it? Oh, you want to take it? I didn't know, but I I got blasted online for it.

SPEAKER_06 18:10

So we we we've I was gonna say we we kind of we we moved away from that when um when when Russell M. Nelson was was president of the church, that was one of the things that he stressed was that we are the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And that was there was uh a shift at that point where we kind of moved away because the term Mormon like in originally was kind of used as as a as an insult, you know. Yeah, it was derogatory, it was meant to be derogatory, but the the early saints embraced it, you know, they embraced the word, they're like, hey, yeah, sure, we're Mormon. You can call us more, and that's what that's when the church the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Mormon this and Mormon that, and it was for a long time. But my my opinion, my thoughts on that whole thing was that yeah, we had done what we needed to do. We embraced the word Mormon until it lost its power. It wasn't you could mean Mormon wasn't a bad thing anymore. We're like, yeah, whatever. But then at a certain point, we're like, okay, we've we've taken the sting out of that word. Now let's move on and identify with what we really are, or disciples of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

What what is the official church website?

SPEAKER_05 19:30

Church of Jesus Christ.org.

SPEAKER_06 19:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:32

And didn't it used to be Mormon.org? No, that was a website. Yeah, yeah. That was a that was one of the websites.

SPEAKER_06 19:40

Yeah, there was two, there, there were two main websites. There was lds.org, which was geared primarily toward members of the church with like tools and resources. And then there were there was Mormon.org, which was geared more toward people outside of the church who were curious about what we believed and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Yeah, yeah, and the reason they set up the Mormon.org is because most of the time if people are going to go and search about the religion, they're gonna type in Mormon. And so if it's Mormon.org, that website is up there at the top. I don't think that website exists anymore. It does not.

SPEAKER_06 20:10

Okay, because it actually you oh you okay. Here you can still, as a matter of fact, to me, it's just easier to get if I'm going to one of them. I still type in lds.org or mormon.org. Lds.org redirects to church of jesuschrist.org. Mormon.org, if if I haven't done it in a while unless unless it's changed, it does redirect to now toward um come unto Christ. I mean it's comeuntochrist.org. Is that is that the the website?

SPEAKER_03 20:35

It's definitely different because I remember looking it up before I came on the first day.

SPEAKER_05 20:39

Mormon Mormon.org redirects to church to church of Jesus Christ.org. Okay, church of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Okay, so it does a so both of them just.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

For me, you know, it's it's coming from our prophet. And and I'm gonna, you know, I I 100% respect that. I personally don't see the biggest deal in it. Like, I I don't I don't think it's it's worth screaming at anybody say we're not Mormons. I mean, it's to me that's that's that's a little silly. I mean, because that that name's going to stick around. I mean, it's just it is what it is. We have the book of Mormon, it's it's gonna stick around. But okay, uh, but I mean our faith the the one term I really have actually disliked even before um uh uh President Nelson uh started that change was Mormonism. I I've never liked weird I don't like Mormonism because that's definitely not our faith.

SPEAKER_03 21:48

I actually thought the word Mormonism was derogatory. Yeah first.

SPEAKER_06 21:52

No, it's actually I I think it's it I personally don't have a problem with it because Mormonism, the word Mormonism. In my experience, it is usually used in more of a or historically at least has been uh more of a in a scholarly context because Mormonism was it was just a convenient word to differentiate the beliefs and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints you know compare and contrast that with you know Protestant or Creedal Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 22:29

It does kind of shorten it, you know, you can go Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a well-yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot to say. So Mormon is I do get it, but but I mean the whole point of it is to get everyone off of the name Mormon and for them to realize that we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ. Like it's more focused on him instead of Mormon who didn't even write the Book of Mormon. Like Mormon didn't write the book of Mormon, he abridged it. He there is a there is a a book in there that is Mormon. Um there is a Book of Mormon in the Book of Mormon, yes. Exactly, but he was the main guy who took uh all of it and abridged it and brought it

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SPEAKER_01 23:17

together.

(Cont.) Mormon, LDS, And Centering Jesus

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Two things. Uh well, three things. Let's call uh whatever you would call me, okay? Non-Mormons. Okay. I will say it in public. I think we don't mean offense when we call you guys Mormons. I don't take offense, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:39

I don't take offense. Yeah, offense at it be because I've I've been friends with Frank for so long that I I developed really thick skin. I call him way worse than all the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

My skin's still developing 20 years later. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:52

If you you hang out with Frank too much, you you gotta develop it.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Mormonism, the word Mormonism, the ism makes it sound like a disease. You know what I mean? Did you hear about Joey? He's he's got he's got the affliction of Mormonism. You know what I mean? I always thought that it was kind of case Mormonism, had to get a prescription for some antibiotics. So all right, so but whenever Joey and I at work, you know, if someone will hear us have a discussion and they'll say, you know, well, what church do y'all go to, or what is what are you? What are he, what is because everybody has to have a label, you know, what are you? You know, what am I supposed to tell people you are? If I if I don't say, well, he's a Mormon. Because I told someone today you were a Mormon.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Uh because we were having a religious discussion with somebody today.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Yeah, for for one, for me, again, that doesn't offend me by any means. I mean, that kind of shortens it, and but uh well, you have to speak for everyone. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Everyone, every LDS member. Because honestly, I mean, this we're putting this stuff out to the world, and people are gonna see it.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Just say he's a he's well, uh to to shorten it, and I even I do actually think, and correct me if I'm wrong, um, but I I I think even uh President Nelson was trying to get away from this, but LDS, Latter-day Saints, is kind of a uh a shorter term, uh shorter or just straight up that he's a member of the Church of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_06 25:14

That's that's what I think is the like if you want the official what what is the most correct or whatever, I think that's that's what what President Nelson kind of yeah, we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ. I know it's a name. That's a lot to say though. So yeah, whatever. If you so people still say Mormon.

SPEAKER_05 25:32

So let me let me throw that question back right back at you. Okay. If someone says, Well, what is Frank? What is your response? Baptists. Okay, so you don't say Christian. True.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Okay, well, actually, a lot of I guess I would say Christian, but a lot of times whenever I'm being approached by someone, they are of uh they I I usually know them, so I know where they go to church. So they're they don't they know I'm a Christian. Uh now if I was out of state, I'd probably say I'm Christian. If I went to Iran, I would say I'm Christian, you know.

SPEAKER_05 26:08

Right. So yeah, so the the the the the reason I the reason I bring that up is is because if you ask any any of us, especially now, you know, maybe 10-15 years ago, you may have had a different response. Uh, but if someone asked me, I'm gonna say, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. Some people refer to us as Mormons or Latter-day Saints, you know, th those are common terms. Um, the other thing that a lot of people don't uh realize is that just like more the word Mormon was used as a nickname, the word Christian was used as a nickname for followers of Christ. Yes. Because followers of Christ are actually saints. Uh disciples of Christ are saints. And so when the when the outsiders, when the Gentiles That's a good point, yeah. Yeah, when they when they were referring to who those people were that were following this, this prophet, this this supposed messiah, his name was was Jesus Christ. Well, he's a they're they're Christians.

SPEAKER_03 27:06

So with that being said, this is a rabbit hole. But with that being said, on the first episode, the very first question I asked was, are Mormons Christian? Or LDS? Sorry, hard change for me. I mean, no offense. Are LDS Christian? And you guys unanimously said yes. So you should start. I mean, this is my personal, you should say, I we're I'm a Christian, yeah, but I'm also a member or I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints, because I think when people hear LDS, it it it it separates you from Christian. Yeah. And I and I'm speaking from someone that wasn't raised in in the church. Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

Um, yeah, so and uh to you to your point, there's a there's a popular uh news channel out there. Uh y'all may have heard of you have you heard of Moroni channel? The Moroni channel? Yeah. So if you if you notice their post, they refer to Christian, Christian missionaries, Christian temple, you know, uh the the the Christian prophet. Oh yeah that they put they put that that term there to help uh continue to drive home the point that yes, we are believers and followers of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

I think as a as a as I'm I'm I'm I'm not gonna I'm gonna find a better word for the word outsider, but as an outsider, um I feel like whenever I would meet someone like you said 15, 20 years ago, whenever we were in a band, and yeah, you know the LDS people that were in other bands, um they would say, I'm Mormon. And I and to me that separated them from me. Can you can you see where I'm coming with that? It would almost seem like, oh, well, we're a little different from you. You know, you're you're Christian and we're not. Not that they said that, but my brain took it as there's something different, right?

SPEAKER_06 29:00

So I think we we did talk about this a little bit on the last episode with with Frank, but um so the within the early the early days of of the the the restoration, as we call it, of you know the early days of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, there was so much intense persecution that a lot of the members of the church of that time openly were like, Yeah, I don't, I'm they they didn't want to be called Christian, because to them, a Christian, the word Christian was synonymous with the most hateful, evil, despicable, mean-spirited people you've ever met in your life. Because for them, that you know, the word Christian kind of had a negative connotation because of this the persecution was so intense that they were like, if you'd ask them, they'd be like, Oh no, I'm not a Christian, because in a lot of their minds, the word Christian was had become negative because of the the way that they were treated and the persecution that they had faced at the hands of their you know good Christian neighbors.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Can I tie that with something though? So on the part of the comments, uh a lady and I and I had her name written down and I forgot it. I forgot my notes. Sorry. She said to as a rebuttal to me, she said, the reason we don't speak about our faith is because we're attacked, not questioned. When I said, Why don't you guys speak more freely about what you believe? And you said, You're talking about persecution, things like that. I'm gonna tell you, in my experience, all walks of life are mean. I mean, everybody's mean. I've dealt with rich people, poor people. I I deal with everybody across the board, and everybody's gonna judge you for something. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna judge Joey for the hat he wears, the shirt you wear. Someone's gonna judge you for something.

How To Handle Attacks With Calm

SPEAKER_01 30:54

So it's not can't make everybody happy.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Yeah, so you can't say, well, you know, I don't want to talk about my faith to someone because I'm gonna get persecuted or judged, because that's actually wrong. You should still stand true on your faith because I will.

SPEAKER_07 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

I mean, and I'm not, you don't see me, you know, burning up the pews at church, mainly because I work on weekends, but still, you don't see me doing that. But let someone tell me that they don't believe in God. I don't attack them, I don't, but I will tell them this is how I feel, this is my experience, because that person has already told you they don't like you. They've already told you, they've ripped that band-aid, they've already said, I have a problem with you, and it's your job to stand your ground and say, This is what I believe and how I feel, because if you truly believe it, you will. People are gonna be mean.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I don't I don't think a lot of people know how to handle it though. Like, I I think they get so caught up in in wanting to defend their faith, but they don't really know how to, especially if the person uh is coming at them more aggressive than they're what they're used to. Um, like for somebody like me, I've I've been in a couple situations where uh you know I thought a couple people might be uh willing to have a good conversation uh just religiously. And and uh but then I started to realize that it was more of a trying to disprove my faith or trying to trip me up. And that's when and and and then you know it might even get a little hot. And and back in the day, um, you know, I I was kind of you know short-tempered and and ready to ready to uh yeah, I was ready to spit fire, you know, something and and raise my voice, but now and and to to bring a whole heck of a lot more peace in my life, when I recognize this, I just I don't I don't participate. It's like, well, I mean, if you want to have a conversation about Jesus Christ, then by all means, I would absolutely love to talk about our savior. But if you're going to try to poke fun at my religion or try to trip me up or try whatever, then I'm I'm not interested in this conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:20

Well, those people already have their mind made up. They about they're not interested in learning anything about what what you believe at that point. They're they've already got they they're telling you what you believe. Well, you believe this and this and this and this, rather than saying, so what what what are your theme, what are your thoughts about this thing? You know, what about this this scripture or this this?

SPEAKER_03 33:38

And that's why I came here out of pure curiosity. Yeah, you know what I mean to begin with. But what I want to say is it it ties into what I just said. Someone's gonna, they're gonna, if someone doesn't like you or has they're gonna judge you for something. Yeah, you know, your job is to remain stoic, and that's what I always try to you and I work together now. You're gonna hear me say this a lot. Joey, this person is not our friend. Let's do what we promised we were gonna do and get out. You know, some people are unhappy, some people are gonna be mad if you do a perfect job, they're gonna be mad. They're angry people. Let them be angry. I'm still gonna believe the way I believe, I'm still gonna do the things I do. And if they don't like you because of what you believe, they're lost, not you. Remain stoic, go on about your life because you may not gain a friend that day.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Boo-hoo. You're a likable guy, you've got other friends. And the point is, I just think a lot of people just don't, uh, you know, especially in our faith, I think there's uh they're more passive and and they don't want that confrontation. So they just that's why they don't even want to bring up their faith is because they just they don't want even want a chance of any type of confrontation.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

You and I are similar, and you know this now. We've worked together for a while. We're we're a little on the aggressive side, and I I get it, and I've had to learn in my life that not everybody's like me. A lot of people are non-confrontational and passive, and I'm not, I'm very, I'm very uh what's the word, passionate about something I believe or I feel or I think. Yeah, you know. Um and and yes, uh it it's man, even being in the world we live in today, being a Christian is difficult. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 35:34

I mean, um you've got so many false things in the world, in the news, in the media, everywhere that is not of God, that is, that is, is that is poisoning people's brains. And I'm not gonna sound like an old person here like firing brimstone, but that's why I'm saying it's more important now than ever to stand on what you believe because the popular vote is not what we believe. Yeah, you guys, and I want to say this you guys might not deal with the same people I deal with. Okay? I know a lot of really evil people, I know a lot of lost people, I know a lot of of people that think Christians are a joke, and they think you're less intelligent because you're religious. Oh, you're a sheep, you like being led. You have a crutch. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

You have to rely on faith. Because that's prophecy. I I can't uh you know, paraphrase it here, but basically, people, you know, men will lean on their own uh understanding and knowledge and stuff like that, and and not believe in in the word. Again, I'm paraphrasing and I forget completely what scripture that is, but that's basically where we're at.

SPEAKER_05 36:53

Things in in in Timothy where it talks about being ever learning but never coming to a full understanding of the truth.

SPEAKER_06 37:00

Yep, right. So yeah, we can always learn more. And I I want to comment too on what you said. I I feel like that is the reason why I think it's it's really should be really important for all people who consider themselves to be disciples of Jesus Christ to come together rather than fighting amongst ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 37:24

Because there's there's a whole evil world out there that hates all of us equally.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

They would have us dead.

SPEAKER_06 37:34

Yeah, there's a lot of these people that they they whether you're Mormon or Baptist, they they think you're just as stupid either way.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Stupid and evil, yeah.

Why Interfaith Respect Matters Now

SPEAKER_05 37:43

Yeah, and that's that's one of my uh larger goals with this with this podcast, having Frank on and having starting to have other individuals who aren't members of the church. I interviewed an individual uh last week um who who's almost three years sober now uh from alcoholism and everything, and has relied heavily on his faith in the Lord and everything, and uh had him in the studio. He's not a member of the same church uh of the Church of Jesus Christ of Valley Saints. He's not a Mormon, whatever you whatever it is you you want to call it. Um but but he has he has relied on his faith and in an effort to um network and have interfaith discussions, uh we want to have more people like that uh on.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

I'll say this and I I said this to a person recently that has become atheist. Okay. And basically said that I was dumb. Okay. Fine. Um and then I I I sent them the link to do you guys know who it is because you were laughing at each other. No, I did something with my own. Yeah, Joey. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

Because y'all know it, but I'll never tell. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

We spoke in confidence. So um, and they they they said something about me going on this podcast, and they thought it was basically a waste of time or it was stupid, or what what's what am I really trying to accomplish? And they're gonna try to trick you. They're go they're not telling you all the truth. There's things they learn behind closed doors that they'll never tell you, Frank. Okay. Well, I'm not asking you about behind closed doors, I'm asking you what you believe. I'm asking your faith. And so I I shut them up because I said the more I'm around them, the more I find that I have more in common with them than I do you. And it was like, huh. I have learned in the last few years, even, that the LDS church is substantially more organized than I ever knew it was. Right. Substantially.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Almost painfully so. Yes. From a war clerk position. Painfully so.

SPEAKER_03 40:03

And and I and I never knew that because me growing up, I could start a church tomorrow. I could go, uh, I could rent a building, and and I, and there's no, and I'm not saying this is bad. And I could have followers come there and we could have church. No organization, I get up and I speak, people tithe. They still we still follow the same, we we follow the Bible, we follow the teachings and things like that. And I've been to quite a few churches like that, and some of them are awesome. I will say that, I will dispute that with anybody. Some of those are the best places to go to get spiritually fed because those are people that really, really want to do it, and they go out on a limp.

SPEAKER_06 40:52

Yeah, there's a friend we have in common that we were talking about before. His parents traveled the world and like planted churches. Yeah, that's what you know there were people to do that.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Yeah, my uncle did that.

SPEAKER_06 41:03

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

So I the house I live in, I built myself, and I built my house with my uncle and my dad and a few other people. My uncle actually built churches all over the world. My uncle, and that's what he that was his calling. And and it's funny because he was he never seemed super religious. And he retired from his job. And I said, What are you gonna do? He said, I'm going back to work, I'm building churches. He's like, I have the know-how because he worked for the government. He goes, I know how to build churches. I'm going to all these churches, I'm gonna make them better, I'm gonna make them safe, I'm gonna make them great. And he did that basically until he died. That's good. Um and that was his calling.

SPEAKER_05 41:39

Yeah.

Organization, Culture, And The Cult Claim

SPEAKER_05 41:40

The biggest thing, I guess, point, is that is that we are not a local church, we're a worldwide church. Yes, literally a worldwide church. And right if you show up in Way Cross, Georgia on this this coming Sunday, there's a planned Sunday school lesson. The individuals in Japan are learning the same exact thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Question to go with that. Don't you guys cycle? You do Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, church history? Church history, Dr.

SPEAKER_05 42:11

Covenants.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Yeah, doctors. Okay, and then you go back. Now, is it what one year period is?

SPEAKER_06 42:15

Yes, one year, yeah, four-year cycle. Yeah, through yeah, huh.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

I I mean that's uh that's organized. That's worldwide, that's organized, and that's great. Uh so not throwing no shade, as the young folks say. But but I thought that was pretty cool. So I've been working, Joey and I have been working together. We've started this business, and Joey has slowly given me little snippets, you know, about what he does at church. And a lot of times he thinks I don't listen because he can't hear, so he thinks I can't hear. And I hear him on the phone with people from the church, the bishop or whoever else. And I think I made the stroke to you. And you walked in one day, and I was like, I did not realize you're somebody. You know what I mean? Because of things he does at the church, and people call him for things going on, and it's that's when it hit me. I was like, this is organized, right? Like there's checks and balances, right? You know, and and I thought that was pretty cool. And and and I'm not used to that, yeah. And I think that might be one stigma that throws people off, you know what I mean? That that are outsiders, they they go. That's why the word cult gets sometimes used, because it is like you guys are organized. And I think that that that frightens people. You know what I mean? It's like the word government has such a bad word because it's organized. Well, it's not, it's not if the if the LDS church run the government, it'd probably run better. Oh, yeah. But absolutely. But but anyhow, um you might be on to something. I think, yeah, I know. I think I am on to something, and I think that um I think it really because people that grew up like I grew up are used. To somebody that just started a church. You know what I mean?

unknown 44:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

And the LDS church is just growing.

SPEAKER_05 44:14

And this was more so early on as the church began to spread the worldwide. You know, you'd have these con talking, you know, you're uncle building churches and stuff. So you'd have these congregations that would be established, and they say, okay, you know, we're leaving it with you. You know, we've given you the priesthood. Uh, so you know, build build the Lord's kingdom right here in this area. And then, you know, 10 years go by, and uh uh somebody, a general authority will come and visit, check in on things, and they're like, and they're they're running things a little different, they're not doing things like that. Hold on a second, you're doing this wrong. We gotta, we gotta fix this, correct this, and so you'll you'll you'll constantly see that.

SPEAKER_06 44:49

Kind of what the apostle Paul did. Right. It's the same, the same principle, the same concept.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

Well, well, and and I'm and I'm tiptoeing to even say the word cult because that's what when you read online, that's where everyone goes. And I think that's where some of it is because it's a culture, it's it's it's a one-vision church that is established under one thing that everyone is collectively doing, and I think that is what makes it seem odd to people that don't understand it. And it's weird as I get deeper into this and being around Joey and you and you, I'm starting to to understand. Yeah, you know what I mean? And and because growing up, I went to school with LDS people, and they would say, they're they're part of that group, you know, and they're they only talk to people that are in their group, you know. And that and that seemed, but if someone puts that idea in your head, you believe it, you'll make it reality. And I go, you know what? Kenny doesn't talk to me the way he talks to Joey. You know what I mean? Yeah, and and correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem that way.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

No, well, I'm just gonna throw out there that's how the adversary works, gossip. Yes, we've talked about gossip at work before and how and how it's and that's that's what he wants to do. He wants to divide and and yeah.

How Latter-day Saints Pray

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Can I ask a question? So we were gonna start with this, and we just went off the deep end. So we'll stay a little tighter next time. Yes, sorry. So well, we haven't gotten to get together in like two months. I've been really like we're just catching up. So Kenny and I have been friends for close to 30 years. And you asked me to say an opening prayer. Yeah that was odd to me, and I'll tell you why. I told you, I said, I don't pray, I have conversations. Um when I pray, I'm driving, I'm taking a shower, I'm doing whatever because I feel like I feel like God is always present. Okay, so I'm having a conversation as if God's sitting here or here or here. You know, I'm drive, I was driving today, and I'm like, God, this is going on in the world, this is what I pray for. I I hope you, you know, see people through this, you know, comfort them and this and that or whatever. So it's weird when I'm put on the spot to pray because it's it's almost like I haven't learned how to pray. And Kenny says, I've never heard you pray before.

SPEAKER_06 47:30

How do you and yeah, you've literally been one of my best friends for decades. And yeah, it's funny.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

So, but but my question is how do you pray? How do you pray, and how do you pray? Because it was weird to me that we pray differently.

SPEAKER_05 47:47

Right. So the the uh the basic is is that we address Heavenly Father. Yes, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna thank him for things and we're gonna ask him for things. Sometimes those things are for us, sometimes we're asking him for the benefit of others, and then we and then we close in the name of Jesus Christ. And but we do aim to like yourself have have a conversation.

SPEAKER_06 48:09

Even though I think a lot of us when we pray privately is more like you. I mean, I know I for me it is, you know, a lot of times my personal prayers are very like I'm talking to God like He's sitting right here beside me. And I'm like and and like you know, pouring out my heart. But when we pray in in official settings or in our in our meetings, there is kind of a structure, but the str that structure is the structure that Jesus Himself laid out. That's the way that he told us to pray. So that's why we have that structure. We we pray to the Father in His name, which is what Jesus taught us to do.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Does does does the LDS church tell you how to pray? Do they teach you, say, hey, this is this is the proper way, this is and I don't mean any disrespect by this. I'm just saying, I was never, I was never well, it's funny because I I I said I joke with one of y'all, I said, I'm never going to pray for work ever again. Because when I did, it's like I went from I can't afford to live. Yeah, I'm not careful what you pray for, you just make it. I say this too, because I'm not I'm not being arrogant and bragging, but I make very good money now, ten times what I used to make. And I used to live on that, and I'm going down, like, how did I live on this?

SPEAKER_06 49:33

You thought you were hot stuff then too. You were you were in the corporate world and you were all like I went to the corporate world, if you were Mr. Big Shot, you're probably making way more now than you were thinking.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

So, and Joey knows like how it is. So, um so I want to say it was a I want to type to say it was a blessing. I prayed for something. I rarely, you know, you you said when you pray, you know, you ask for things or whatever. I I realize I never ask for anything. I'm all I've always been so concerned about others. Right. I would always go, you know, please Lord bless Joey with a razor. He needs it, you know, or whatever it may be. But uh but I never asked for anything, and so I worked a job that I hated. I worked a job that Sunday nights I had a knot in my stomach. Um and I I got tired of it. And I I stepped out in faith, and it was rough. I'm not gonna lie, it was rough. But I remember when I finally asked for something, and I'm talking I'm in my 30s at this point. When I finally and I've never asked God for anything, I did not ask God to heal my sick mother. I prayed for peace for her. I prayed, you know, if she goes, go peacefully, and she did. You know, that was fulfilled for me. Um because I but I would always say, your will be done. You know, whatever you feel is best, you know. You're the all-knowing, not me. But I I but I remember saying, God, I'm at my wit's end. I've done everything right. I I stepped out in faith and I did everything right. And I don't know what to do because I can't find work. And when I tell you, Joey, Joey will tell you, this is not me blowing smoke. Does my phone not ring every day from people I don't know? From and I have never advertised. I text him and call him every day. We will never catch up. When I called him and we talked about him and I joining forces and starting a business, he's like, Well, what if we get slow? And I said, We won't. I I said, we won't. And now he has seen my phone rings every day because I sincerely asked for something. And and I and I truly meant it. And I said, I'm I stepped out in faith, and you gave, I felt the word of God say, You will be fine. You're in the wrong place. And I did. And I've been able to bless people since that's happened to me. But it's funny, Joe will tell you, my phone rings every day.

SPEAKER_05 52:28

That's a that's a wonderful testimony of faith and stepping out and prayer, and nothing.

SPEAKER_03 52:33

Stepping out it's all about stepping out on your money and going, God, I trust you that money is going to go to my bank account every week, and it has. Yeah. Um and it's funny to go with

Blessings, Ministering, And Showing Up

SPEAKER_03 52:48

that. You were talking about blessings. You know, that's something that was new to me. You know, I remember when my dad had a heart attack, he was really sick. Someone from your church, I won't put them on blast, reached out to me that that we're not close. We don't talk that much. They sent me a text and they said they started talking about blessings that the church endorses, believes, you know. And they said, We would like to come to sit with you and your father and put a blessing on. I regret that I didn't do it. I honestly do, because at the time I was like, that's gonna be an awkward conversation for him. He's old school, he's gonna be like hard-nosed about it or whatever, and you know my dad. Yeah. And I was like, that's that's gonna go bad. That's gonna go bad for y'all, you know. And uh and then you were speaking again the other day. So I I'm now you've got my curiosity piqued uh uh about things like that, because that's the way I was raised, the way that I've always believed, is you ask you know, God blesses you. You ask God, and that's it. God is and what I'm getting is that you're talking about what what we call a priesthood blessing. I would almost I I call it I called it the uh I called it the I was trying to explain it to a friend. I said it's almost like a blessing team that they have. Where it's like, hey, let us pray with you. Let us help get you across the finish line. You're not alone. I do like that, by the way. That just seems it seems so uh, well, let's go back structured. You know, I never knew that you're the guy. You know what I mean? That I could have just called you and said, hey man, this is what's going on. Can you help me through this? You know, I just thought Joey was a plumber.

SPEAKER_05 54:37

I can do that. Yep, that's that's that that's good. Uh, you know, I mean we we're encouraged and and the designed to be ministers to everyone, right? Um, you know, we sometimes we have specific families that we look out for and minister to, but on top of that, hopefully we are reaching beyond that and ministering and reaching out to individuals that we see or get prompted that that are in need of some in some way.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

I had a friend years ago. He said, uh I I'm gonna I'm gonna mess the wording up, but he we were just casually talking. He said, um, there's a couple of Mormon guys at work that keep checking on me. He said, and they came by my house and just dropped in on me. And he said, I thought that was so weird. I said, it's planned. And he said, What do you mean? I said, they're looking out for you. I was like, that's what they do. I was like, I know enough to know they didn't just say, hey, let's drop by and see Fred. You know, I was like, they're they're actively watching out for you.

SPEAKER_05 55:48

So going back to the this 5,000-year leap, you know, in the end it talked about everybody working hard, you know, but when when people are down on their luck, hopefully others are picking them up, right? Going all the way back to to the founding fathers and and the divine design in this in this country and being founded upon Christian, God-fearing principles, is that we do have times of of hard luck. And hopefully, again, ministering doesn't take place just within within our church. You see, you see it all over, and that's and that's the way that God designed it. You know, work hard, bust your butt, get out there, do everything you can. And when things aren't going your exactly your way, hopefully you've got your friends, family, and people that are out there looking out for you as well.

SPEAKER_03 56:37

So I'm so and and I mean that's something churches I've grown up into. I mean, we look out for each other. Yeah, but this was a non-member. That's the way it's designed. This was a non-member that was just wondering just why the two LDS guys just showed up at his house. And I was like, they're checking on you, dude. Practicing the faith.

SPEAKER_06 56:56

Yes, yeah. Well, uh I think you're you're right. They're probably, I mean, that that probably was planned. They're probably what we have lots of different meetings where we we to we discuss, you know, individuals we're trying to to help or look out for, you know, if we if we know of somebody that has a need, because that's that that's what we do, man. That's what the church does, you know, is is help people. And so yeah, there's a good possibility this person's name probably came up in one of those meetings where somebody's like, hey, I know this guy, yeah, man, he's he's going through something right now, maybe we can help him out. And so boom. And yeah, so yeah, it probably was very, like you said, very planned.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

Well, I'm gonna shut this down at nine o'clock because we got 30 minutes. Uh let's let's try and tackle uh something

Galatians 1:8 And Defining Gospel

SPEAKER_05 57:40

specific. We had you had mentioned Galatians 1.8. Um, did did you want to did you want to touch on that or did you or is there something else that that you wanted to touch on?

SPEAKER_03 57:49

Uh let's see. I mean is this the one basically where I was saying there would there was a there was a a passage that said no other scriptures can be written after this point of the city.

SPEAKER_06 58:00

Well, no, this one the one the Galatians 1.8 is it says but though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 58:11

Which is one that we've all heard Okay, well, that's what I came across online. Yeah. Where where it's like, well, wait a minute, the LDS church was founded after this was written. It's not a true, it's not a true gospel, it's not a true Christian faith. How do you combat that? How do you tackle that? How do you navigate that?

SPEAKER_01 58:37

I would navigate it by um going a few chapters forward and going to chapter five, Galatians, uh, verse 22 and 23. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance. Against such there is no law. So by that I would say look at the fruits. You know, if if someone wants to question our faith and want to say that we contradict something or we're teaching something else that's contrary to Christ or God or anything, I would say, look at the fruits of the church. Look at the the um what you know, just like you you said, the the two gentlemen that took an evening away from their families to go see a specific someone who was probably disgusted in in a meeting and said, you know, hey, we're worried about this one individual or this family. Let's send a couple of priesthood holders over there and check on them. Um, you know, the missionaries that are are around the world right now, they want nothing more than to serve. They they are putting two years of their young adulthood life on hold to go spread the gospel, spread the word of Christ, you know, not just trying to convert people to quote unquote Mormonism, but to share the word of Christ. And um and then on on that, also I would say, and I would tell anybody this if that's not enough, then you know, you want to bring up the Book of Mormon and say how we have uh, you know, a different Bible or our Bible. We we don't, we have another testament to Jesus Christ. And I would challenge people to you can pull it up on on your phone and go to Alma, let me see, Alma 34, and and read that entire chapter, but specifically 34 uh excuse me, 37 through 41. And it speaks nothing but the goodness of Christ. And that's that's that's how I would approach that. Look, look at the fruits. It's literally in doctrine, it's in the Bible. Look at the fruits.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:22

And that's what Jesus Himself taught that uh you know a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Exactly. And and so, yeah, it's like the the fruits are testament of the truthfulness of the church. Yeah, I mean, do if you believe if you believe Jesus anyway, if you actually believe what Jesus said, yes, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:42

You said Alma 37 what?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Uh 37 through 41 specifically, but I would I would challenge everybody to read the entirety of that of that chapter.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:54

Of chapter 34?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah, chapter 34.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:57

So it says, and now, my beloved brethren, I desire that you should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ, that ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive it. Take upon you the name of Christ, that ye humble yourselves even to the dust and worship God in what whatsoever place ye may be in. In spirit and in truth, that ye live in thanksgiving daily for the many mercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you. And also exhort you, my brethren, that ye be watchful under prayer continually, that ye may not be led away by the temptations of the devil, that he may not overpower you, that ye may not be s his become his subjects at the last day. For behold, he rewardeth you no good thing. And now, my beloved brethren, I would exhort you to have patience, and that ye bear with all manner of afflictions, that ye do not revile against those who do cast you out because of your exceeding poverty, lest ye become sinners like unto them. But that ye have patience and bear with those afflictions with a firm hope that ye shall one day rest from all your afflictions.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:05

Good stuff. I I would also add another another way you could approach that is historic the historically the the historical context. So what Paul was talking about was there there were people in the in the church at that time, you know, in the you know, these congregations of believers that were getting off track and then were teaching things. Specifically, the problem that he was actually addressing was people who believed that believed that you still had to adhere to the law of Moses, because most of the early followers of Christ were were Jews initially, and that was kind of a thing that had to kind of get worked out because the majority of the early what we would call Christians now, the followers of Christ, were devout Jews who were like had been raised their whole life where the law of Moses is is everything. That is the most crucial, important thing. So they were teaching, yeah, you you do still have to follow the law of Moses. And Paul had to come, he was correcting them. He was like, Listen, uh, you know, I understand where you're coming from with the law of Moses, but you don't have to follow the law of Moses, and that was yes, it's been fulfilled, and that was really difficult. And once again, I talk about this a lot about presentism. You know, we we tend to view the past through the lens of our modern culture and our lived experience. But if you try to put yourself in the place in the shoes of a first century Jew who is following Christ, you know, who is their whole life, who their parents and their grandparents had their whole life has been about following the law of Moses. And now all of a sudden, you know, they're they're following Jesus, this Jesus who they believe was the Christ and the Messiah. But for them, letting go of the law of Moses would have been really difficult. They'd be like, wait a minute, what you're you're saying we're not supposed to follow the law of Moses? Hold up. That that goes against everything I've ever been taught my whole life. So it's understandable to me if you if you try to put yourself in their shoes, it makes sense that they would have been really resistant to not following the law of Moses. They're like, I don't know about that. I I think you should probably still follow the law of Moses. And that's what Paul was actually correcting. He was like, no, this what you're teaching now is not what Jesus taught. You're you're you're going backwards, you're you're adding things that aren't supposed to be there. So that was the main issue that Paul was correcting. And he wasn't saying that we can't still receive revelation, and that that's one thing that is a sticking point for me because Paul himself. Revelation. He believed in ongoing revelation. He had a vision of Jesus Christ. That's why he became the Apostle Paul. He believed in angelic visitations and revelation and all this kind of stuff. So to take Paul's words and try to interpret that as like, oh no, we don't believe in God sending angels to deliver messages. I mean, it would actually contradict what Paul was teaching. Because he was teaching, like he believed, he believed firmly that no, God speaks to people, and God sends sometimes angelic messengers and all this kind of thing. He believed in that. What he was correcting was people who were hung up on the law of Moses. And so there's so the real question, I guess, is what is the gospel? When you say what is the gospel, that's really the meat of the whole thing. What is a different gospel? So the gospel for Paul, what he's taught, what he's talking about there, if you read the whole chapter and not just take one verse out of context, he he was talking about faith in Jesus Christ. And he believed in baptism, what we believe. And so faith in Jesus Christ, um, baptism, and obeying the the things that Jesus taught, being obedient to what Jesus commanded, you know, the things that he taught, which is exactly what we do. So that would be perfectly in line with what Paul was teaching. And as a matter of fact, you could take it a step further, and from a Latter-day Satan perspective, we would say that God actually, through Joseph Smith, was doing exactly what the apostle Paul was doing at that time, because there was it went from one kind of belief system based on what Jesus taught, to now you've got 10,000 different churches who are all teaching slightly different variations of this. And so obviously, something's gone wrong, something is not right if there's all these different churches, if if we're supposed to be united, you know, one faith, one baptism is what Paul taught. So we believe that God called a prophet to say, hey, you need to get things pulled back on track. And so that is from our perspective, what organized, yeah, organized, yeah. So from I would say from a Latter-day Saint perspective, actually, Joseph Smith was doing exactly what the apostle Paul was doing and was called of God in the same way that the apostle Paul was.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:44

So I spoke to a member of your church who's highly educated and very cynical, very uh does not follow the rules. He's a free thinker. And I said, What made you join the church? And he said, It was the first time that all my and all my questions were answered, and he says, I feel like it's the most complete church. Now, I'm not making that statement because I don't go to your church, but that's what he said to me, and that summed it up.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:25

I've heard a lot of people say that actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

I was gonna say that's not the first time I've heard that. Because I'm a skeptic, because uh, what you basically just said is something that I say too. I always follow God and look for God. I don't follow man and I don't look for man because pride and all these other envy, everything that that man has is not of God. And um I've been to many different denominations, I've been to different churches, and I know when God's there. You know what I mean? I don't think your church is the only church that has God. Correct. Oh no, it's not. We believe that too. Okay, we believe that's a lot of people. I want to be clear about it. We we teach America.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:12

Yeah, yeah, we agree 100% on that one.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:14

I've been to dead churches, I've been to very much alive churches. Um, and and so um, you know, with what what you're saying, the teaching of Moses, it will guess what? God, it sounds to me like God stepped in and God's like, you're following man at this point. Let's follow, let's follow me. Is that is am I correct to say that?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:33

Yeah, yeah, I think that would be a good interpretation of of what what what Paul was actually teaching in that verse?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

Because faith, God, Christianity is a living, breathing thing, it's continuously growing, it's continuously changing. Okay. Um and so it it's it would hard to it'd be very hard to put a timestamp on it. Would you say that? It'd be hard to say, hey, this is it. There that God is not growing, faith is not growing, this is it. And I think that having those conversations give me a better understanding of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:13

This was just kind of on my mind, just to kind of reiterate the the Galatians 1.8.

Missionaries, Fruits, And Real Motives

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

Um you know, speaking about the missionaries. I don't I don't know if y'all, I don't know if y'all caught it. I was trying to be Mr. Tough Guy. I started getting a little emotional about the the missionaries. We we we both me and Jackson have some sons out there in the field right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

But remember it's not sincere when a man's emotional.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:39

But um, but no, you know, just again, by their fruits, you know, these these young men are giving up two years of their life to spread the word of Christ. They again, yes, they they would love to convert you to our faith, given the opportunity, but I just I I you know have a conversation with them. You know, anybody who who has the missionaries uh or sees them, um, one thing, you know, that I'm seeing is you know, they're they're kind of being made to be like these objects, uh, not all the time, you know, just but there are there I have seen situations where there are people out there that kind of try to make these young men objects, you know, of whatever they they have in their head. But you know, these are young men that are sacrificing for Jesus Christ. They believe wholeheartedly for Jesus Christ, and uh they're giving up two years of their life. And I just challenge these people who have these thoughts, um, just have a conversation. You know, they like you you can be upfront with them and tell them, you know, I'm I'm not interested in being converted, but I'm interested in having a conversation with Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

I respect you enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

I love Jesus Christ, yeah. And and and and I I just I pray that these people will will stop looking at them like they're just missionaries and remember that you know they you know they're they're someone's child, they're someone's son, and and they just want to spread the word of God and and uh I just get very little interaction with their family while they're gone, correct? Very yeah, very little interest more than they used to, but but yeah, yeah, you it used to be really strange.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:26

Almost no contact.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

Okay, so uh, you know, what's the saying? Uh the youth is wasted on the young. You know, most young men, me, when I was young, you couldn't have pinned me down anywhere for more than a week. You know, I just lived, and that's one regret that I have that I didn't do something more profound or great in my youth. I waited, like most people, I waited till I was older and wiser and understanding. I've always respected the missionaries for the fact that um they're they're at such a a pivot point in their life that they go, wait a minute, I believe in this enough, I'm gonna put my life on hold.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:12

Exactly for two years. And a lot of them do. They put they put things like college or sports or athletics and things

The Skills And Sacrifice Of Missions

SPEAKER_06 1:14:20

on hold. You know, it's like to do it to push everything else to the side and focus two years. At that time of life, two years is a long time.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

And it's totally voluntary, too. I mean, this isn't this isn't the the the Mormonism cult, you know, whatever. No, I've been told they're they're not getting paid to do that. As a matter of fact, they're paying to do to be that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:37

I've been told, I've been told that that you are you were not forced to be go on a mission, but you were greatly frowned upon if you're not, and and and things like that, and oh not excommunicated, but you're kind of like he did but but I've but I will say this personally I've been through times in my life where I didn't have faith, didn't believe in God, didn't care, didn't care if I woke up, didn't care if I took another breath. I mean, I I'm not saying like my life has been horrible, but I've had some bad times. But I've always been kind to the missionaries. Always been kind to the missionaries because they were always kind to me. They were um and there's been times I was not kind to anybody. Kenny knows me very well. He knows I'm not always kind to people, but I have never because I've always had the utmost respect for the missionaries, because when I was 18, 20 years old, you couldn't have made me do anything. I didn't believe in anything enough. I didn't even believe in myself to do anything and finish and accomplish anything, drop out of college, I don't feel like it, not going, you know. But you have these young men and women that are going, I'm gonna do this. Yeah, and that's something I didn't have. No, and I'm a little envious of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

No, but yeah, and that's uh, you know, when I was telling uh uh telling Hayden or well elder Clement that um uh before he went on his mission, uh, and I told him I told him straight up, I said, I said, listen, I said no one's gonna look down if you decide not to go. This is totally your decision. Yes, you know, it's it's kind of a thing, yeah, sure. I mean, but it's still ultimately your decision. No one's pushing you. Um, and uh, and I'll I'll you know, there'll be no lack of respect here if you choose not to go. I said, but this is what I can tell you that you know, I'll I stopped going to the church at an early age and I didn't go on a mission.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:42

I said, so same, same here.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

And uh and I told him, I said, but this is this is one thing that I can guarantee you. I said, this is really the only bit of of advice and wisdom that I can give you is that from somebody who didn't go, I was like, if if you go, you won't regret it. Yeah, if you do not go, you will regret it. I said, and I'm sitting here at 40 years old, uh you know, 40, 41, whenever I had the conversation, I said, I I can truthfully and wholeheartedly tell you, I regret not going on a mission, and I wish that I would have.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:19

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and I can say it too. I've I've talked to a lot of people, and I've never talked to a single person that has told me they regretted serving a mission. Exactly. You know, it's it, but there's a lot of people like you and I both that now are like I I regret it. I wish I wish I would have been more stalwart during that time in my life and and had had you know had my my focus be because for these they're kids, man. You're talking about 18, 19 year olds. And it's just like, yeah, I was like you were talking about that that time of my life, no, dude. I'm I'm I'm having fun. Like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna dedicate two years of my life to God. Like, what are you talking about?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:02

Graduating high school, I'm free, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:05

Yeah, like I'm free now. So, but looking back now, I'm like, gosh, man, how much different might my life have been had I made that commitment at that age? And and and there's so many benefits of serving a mission. Like, um gosh, um, I'm trying to think, who who was it that um Howard Hughes, I think it was, that um I thought it was interesting. He was not a member of the church at all. Like, but I I remember readings one time that he if if anybody applied for a job working for for for him, it he said if they if they had served a mission for the Mormon church, as he called it, he would hire them on the spot.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:49

No questions asked.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:50

Don't say don't say but he he would hire them because he knew whether he believed it, whether he and he didn't believe what they believed, but he knew that if they had served a mission for the church, he knew that they were honest, he knew they were dependable and followed. Follow through. He knew that they they could stick through through stick to things and follow through. He knew that they could work with other individuals, you know, because that's part of the skills you develop serving a mission. It's like Jackson, you you could testify to this. I mean, like you might not always, you're the companion you're assigned to, you know, you don't just pick, you don't get to pick whoever, like you know, get a big party. It's like, okay, meaning you're gonna be companions. It's like you're assigned, and sometimes personalities clash, and that your companion might not be your favorite person, but you have to learn to work with people that might not be your best friend, yeah. And so, and they and another thing is the missionaries learn to accept to deal with rejection, and that's a big thing because there's a lot of people that slam the doors in their faces, a lot of people are mean and hateful and ugly to them, and they just that's one of the skills they develop. So, all of these skills that are that are cultivated in serving a mission, yeah, they're life skills, yeah. And he recognized that and was like, Oh, yeah, I'll hire one of them boys on the spot. Okay, but skills aside, skills aside, I'm a father, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

If you want to get this Asparta kicked by me so fast, be hateful to one of the missionaries. And I'm not a member, but I I have seen people be unkind to the missionaries that are in this area, they're not from here, and I've pulled people aside and go, look, dude, you don't know me like this, but I'm gonna tell you that's someone's kid that is far from home, scared. I've got chill bumps because I've gotten so angry with people. I'm like, that's someone's child that's left home. They're in a strange town. Okay, even their church is strange to them. They've never met these people. They don't, they didn't grow up with them. They're getting cussed out, door slammed in their face, they're getting rejection every day. And the last thing they need is you to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

And and you know, and those are the people that I always talk to because to me it's it's it's ironic or it's hypocritical to me to sit here and say that you follow Christ, but yet you can be so hateful to someone who wants to try to to anyone, to anyone of that matter. Even like but I was going to say to someone who wants to spread the word of Christ, but to be that hateful to anyone, you say you're a follower of Christ, and then you're so quick because you you believe someone has a different view than yours or a different religion, and you're so fast to be hateful, mean, derogatory, and just straight up evil when Christ taught, you know, Christ congregated with thieves and beggars and tax collectors, and he went to those people who were quote unquote, you know, evil in those times, because those are the people that that that needed him.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:08

And uh the the healthy don't need a doctor, it's the sick people that need the doctor.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

And if and even if you think that these missionaries are just off the wayward path and they just don't think and believe the way that you do, it's it's very I don't even really know what the word, but it's it's it's kind of more like the Pharisees attacking. You're you're you're more like the Pharisees who attack the word of Christ and who attack Christ personally than than you are actually trying to be like Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:43

We didn't even get in, we didn't we're running out of time, but I know that.

When Christians Turn Hostile Toward Christians

SPEAKER_03 1:22:47

We did not get into the comments from the first time that I came here. But something that I didn't mention, and I'll throw my cards on the table. I told you I went around and I talked to the public. You know, I talked to people these, but I came with their questions. Most people wanted me to be mean to y'all. They didn't say it directly. But by the and and and when I I did mimic them and I was correct, and my friend had a very good point is that well, when you talked about other people, you you would mimic the way they spoke as if they were ignorant. Shouldn't have done that. They but they came at me with anger, okay? And I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

Let me let me ask you a question. Were these followers of Christ?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:34

Some, some not so much, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:37

Um, those are the ones that are.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:43

Okay, but but I'm I'm getting to a bigger picture here. My thing is I had the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other. Okay, I came here and I'm already being told they're not gonna tell you the truth. They're gonna talk you in a circle, they're gonna do this, they're gonna do that. Okay? They're gonna if you won't convert, they're not gonna speak to you. They're only gonna, you know, add all these things. And they wanted me to be very unkind. I'm looking at you, but you guys were here. They wanted me to be unkind to you, and it's in the comments. I'm not making this up. People are like, you should have never let them tell you this. You should have said this, you should have said this. Here's the thing I respect you and I respect you, I respect you. Okay, so we're gonna have conversation. I'm never gonna come at you angrily. Um but to tie into one of the first things I said, you said were these followers of Christ. Yes, many of them were, but um, it's like I said earlier, some people are just not gonna like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:45

They have found a reason not to like you. All you did is put a put a target on yourself. Oh, he's LDS. That's it. That's why I don't like Joey. Um and you have to get past that. It it's people are just in the world we grow up in now. I have a sm I have a nine-year-old daughter that I love more than anything. And it breaks my heart to know that the world is getting inherently more evil, more malicious, more just everything as she gets older. Before she was born, I had one of those times, like I said, where where I I suffer from everyone does, so I'm not saying I'm special, but I suffer with severe bouts of depression. Where I had one of those moments where I didn't care if I breathed again. Okay. I didn't care if I I'm like I'm not important anymore. Okay. Now I have an awesome wife, I have an awesome daughter, I have an awesome family. I'm trying to live longer. You know this. We talk about I'm taking this vitamin now and I'm exercising, I'm doing this. I want to live as long as I can now to protect my family from the world that is inevitably coming our way. Okay? So I feel like if I came here the first time with this chip on my shoulder to come at you guys aggressively and tell you how you're wrong, guess what? I'm not gonna learn anything from you. And you guys are gonna learn from me whether you like it or not, because we're gonna have conversation and mutual respect. And guess what? I'll say this on camera. Anyone that comes at any of you guys disrespectfully that thinks that they know you can talk to me because I will tell them you're not doing God's work. You are not, you're not fighting the what the real enemy is the world. You know, yep. Uh it there's so much infighting with Christians now, that's why we're I feel like we're losing the world.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:53

It's yeah, yeah, we we need the the inner faith, the inner faith needs to set aside any doctrinal differences. Yes, focus on Christ. It doesn't matter if we have doctrinal differences, it's okay. Yeah, we're you're just weird. We interpret scripture a little differently. Yeah, we're cherry-picking. That's right. We really are, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:12

We really are. And and and oh my god, I'm gonna get roasted because he just he just he's supporting Mormons now. Well, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is I still have my faith, I still know what I believe, I still know what's real.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:26

I feel like you guys are we're we're parallel.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:30

Well, there's a bigger picture. Yes, that's what I'm getting.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:33

There's a bigger picture in fighting evil.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:35

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna get political because I know we gotta go. You've already set a time limit. But let's look at the world and the news. Yeah, we're cherry, we're cherry-picking scripture. Are we really doing this? When you have things going on, I'm just I'm I'm careful how I word this, but you have atrocities going on in the world right now, but we are in a bug. We're in such a bubble where we are because we're around like-minded Christian people that you we're not seeing what's going on. It's a blessing to be in the Bible Belt. It really is. It's a blessing to be in our bubble that we're in. Yeah. Um but it breaks my heart every time I watch the news and see what's going on in the world. And I and then for someone to shout at a 19-year-old kid that's trying to spread the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:28

Well, and that's and that's I guess that's my message to people is if you are hating someone, because I I I would never hate or attack someone because they're not a member of this church or they're you know a member of this denomination or whatnot or whatever, um our faith teaches to love all of God's children.

Can You Be Anti-Mormon And Christian

SPEAKER_01 1:28:52

We are all God's children, and and what I say to people is if you hate me because of my faith or my religion or whatever, then you are serving the adversary. That's exactly what the devil wants is to divide us so that instead of us coming together in mutual respect and and discussing Christ and the love, the perfect love that he had and the sacrifice that he made for us, not just on the cross, but in the Garden of Gethsemane, you know, the pain that he went through there. You know, if if you hate me because I'm just not of your denomination, then you're not serving Christ, you're serving the adversary. And I'm sorry that might sting and I might get some hateful comments for that, but it's the truth in some. I agree.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:47

I second and something I I say a lot that I know a lot of people don't like, but I stand by it, is that I believe you can either be Christian or you can be anti-Mormon, quote unquote, but you can't be both at the same time. I I and I believe that with all of my heart because if you and by by anti-mormon, I'm not just referring to anybody that doesn't believe what we believe. I'm talking about people who dedicate their time and energy to trying to attack and tear down the church and be mean to the missionaries and all this kind of stuff. Like, no, because those those two things have two oppositional foundations. They're they're they're the what the the the foundation of those two things are are not only different, but directly oppositional.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

You cannot serve two masters, you cannot, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:40

You if you serve Jesus Christ, you cannot hate other people who love Jesus Christ, and just because their beliefs are a little bit different than yours. You can't you can't do that. And I will I will die on that hill. You cannot be Christian and anti-Mormon. I'm I'm just I believe. And what you're doing though, Frank, is there are some people that get it. Thankfully, there's unfortunately there there seem to be few and far between, but some people do. And I don't know, I don't think we've ever talked about this. Uh, have you ever heard of um Jeff McCullough? He has a YouTube channel called Hello Saints.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:18

Yeah, okay. I know that one.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:19

So yeah, Jeff Jeff McCullough gets it. Yep. And and I will and I will admit, because I know a lot, I initially I was one of the people that was very suspicious of Pastor Jeff. I I wasn't a fan of Pastor Jeff at first. I was like, man, he's I don't, and it's because of all these people, you know, the had the hateful comments in that because I've seen firsthand so many people who call themselves Christians that are being all they'll be sneaky, and you know, and I've seen people with the missionaries who have people that I knew that I used to have respect for, that would, you know, invite the missionaries over again and uh act like act like it's a in good faith. But what they were doing is actually setting a trap for them because the next time the missionaries come over, they've got some guy that's like got some kind of divinity degree to attack these kids and just start berating them and tearing them down and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:18

Necessarily trained for that. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:21

They're just all they are is they're just trying to bear testimony of Jesus Christ. And so, you know, like like because of that, it caused me to be jaded, and I wasn't, but it it's it's because of Jacob Hansen, you know, and Jacob is is a friend, he is uh a good guy, and he really advocated hard. He was like, and and that's one of the few things that he Jacob and I have ever disagreed about. And and Jacob, I'm giving you credit if you're watching this right now, because it it is because of him that I was I was able to put aside my my biases and say, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna give this guy a chance. Maybe he maybe he is acting in good faith, maybe he is for real. Because Jacob, he and Jacob are friends. Jacob is you know advocated for him. He's like, no, dude, Jeff is the real deal, he's sincere. And I've I've watched a lot of his stuff now, and I've I've come to believe, I've changed my ways, I've changed my views. I I believe now that that Pastor Jeff is acting in good faith. Um, obviously, yeah, he doesn't believe what we believe, but just like you're doing right now, instead rather than coming at people and just being all being hateful or trying to assume you know that they know what you believe better than you do. You're gonna learn from me. And I'm gonna learn from you, like I said. You're gonna learn from me when I'm sitting down with people. Yeah, he's sitting down with members of the church, and I've seen I've seen several videos that he's posted more recently where he's actually like you know, shared you know, somebody else's video who's being hateful and and and been like, look, and and called him out and be like, listen, what this this kind of technique is is not this this is not what you're supposed to be doing. If you consider yourself to be a Christian, you shouldn't not be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:14

He understands that we have interface.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:23

Is understanding that okay, we might not believe exactly the same way, but we we both at our foundations, you know, we we put

Learning From Good-Faith Critics

SPEAKER_06 1:34:32

our faith in in Jesus Christ, and we should be uniting together because the world does it the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:38

It's blowing, it's exploding right now. Yes, yes, yeah. And we're we're busy. We're making a smaller percentage every year. Okay, so I'll I'll say this because it's past time, and I got to show you all my tail lights in just a second. So this is what I as a as a personal closing remarks.

A Challenge For The Comment Section

SPEAKER_03 1:34:56

Here we go. Closing remarks, because I'm the professional here. Okay. So I missed potato fest. Joey called me, and I was, and my wife was actually bummed. I had talked her into going and told her about how awesome it is, and I got sick the day of, if you recall.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:12

Oh, yeah, yeah. I got sick, so couldn't go. She's like, I'm a witness, he was actually sick.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:16

She's like, we're not gonna go. So here's what I always tell people. Um, I've never I've been around LDS people my whole life. If the four of us sat down with a piece of paper and wrote 100 things that made up our beliefs, our faith, what we're taught, what our church doctrine is. There'll be a few things that are different. A few things that are a bit different, a few being the key word, and that's one thing that I've learned over the years that 95 of the hundred are going to be the same. Some things you guys do and believe are foreign to me. And I'm sorry, it's the truth. I wasn't raised in it, I don't have a full understanding of it. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying I don't understand it. But I will say this I have never had a bad interaction at an LDS church. Never. Not one time have I felt out of place, not once have I got a side eye, not once has anyone not greeted me, or I have felt weird at all. Um, and that speaks volumes to me. And I'm really sorry that it's not reciprocated. I truly am sorry that it's not reciprocated because remember, if we made that list, there's only a few things that are this time in the comments, instead of attacking me, okay, for not being hateful to the LDS people as I'm supposed to be, because I'm on a mission to do that apparently. Instead of doing that in the comments, name a time that you had an interaction with an LDS person and they were hateful towards you. I bet we get substantially less comments than we did last time. Substantial there was hundreds the last time. And they were just, I this is wrong, I don't believe this. I don't believe this. Okay, we know. We know you don't believe the same. We know that you think this is odd, or you think tell us about a bad interaction you had with an LDS person. I bet there are far fewer, because like I said, I'm only speaking for me. I've never, ever, ever had a bad interaction with an with someone from the LDS church. Ever.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:54

And a lot of that is because of what we believe. And because we we believe that we don't believe that we have we don't have the corner market on God. We we, you know, we do believe that we have what we call the fullness of the gospel, quote unquote. But we have the fullness of truth, and we do believe that, and and I can understand how some people could take offense to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:17

But that's what we believe too. Can I say that to be clear? That's how everyone believes that's everyone exactly. But my point is everyone believes they know it all. Everyone believes that they have the full gospel, and we're talking not even Christians. I mean, people are dying as we speak for what they believe. Yeah, and there this is real. This is, and and if you talk to this person that is not Christian, that is of another faith, and I'm not gonna say it, but they would tell you that their church is real, yeah, they have the fullness of the gospel, they believe it just as strong as you are wrong. Now, I feel the same way, you know, but I'm here to bridge that gap, you know. Like, like I said, the more I'm around you guys, Joey, or you you don't answer the phone anymore. But but Joey, the more I realize that there is a such a parallel that I never knew was there. And if I would have uh come at you aggressively when it comes to beliefs in religion or anyone of the LDS church, um, I know your whole church just about. You know what I mean? I know everybody there, but if I would have came at any of them aggressively and said, Well, I can look at this that I read online and I or or or like I said, I literally looked told you something biblical that I said, I've I this is a contradiction, this is a hang up for me. Explain this to me. But if I came at you aggressively and told you and just shut you down, we're done. You know? But I've never had, I've never ever had an LDS person do that to me. But I will say on the first one, the only thing, the only rejection I've ever got is I've had them say, I think you should talk to the missionaries about your question. I'm not ready to answer that question. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:19

Well, I mean, obviously nobody's perfect, so I'm sure there have been individuals out there that have had bad experiences with members of Associates Christ Saturday Saints and all that.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:31

But I'm saying it's gonna be a lot fewer.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:33

Right, yeah. Yeah, we're not absolved from that imperfection.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:37

Some of them were probably people who've had interactions with me. And if it was me, I apologize. I'm looking at the camera right now. Because I know I can be a jerk sometimes. I so so if it was me, if you had a negative interaction with me, I'm apologizing.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:49

Joey will puff up at me sometimes at work. I mean, he can sleep up on me. I'm like, dude, we're on the same team. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:40:57

Uh hey, we we're gonna bring it to a close right there uh for this evening.

Final Wrap And Keep Striving

SPEAKER_05 1:41:01

Been going for a little bit, so we will get back in here sooner rather than later. Uh but sorry, Lam's been busy, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:07

I prayed for business and it hit me.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:10

I work with him, I stay on him.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:12

Uh-huh. Sounds good. All right, everybody. Until next time, y'all keep on striving.