Finding Purpose Through Military Service

Fear of failure sounds harmless until it starts running your life. Sitting down with Jason Knowlton, an active duty Army combat medic, we get honest about what people are really afraid of when they avoid trying, and how learning to fail can become a turning point instead of a label. Jason’s story moves from early childhood trauma and adoption to mentors, scouting, faith, and the long road of becoming comfortable with growth that doesn’t look perfect.

We also dig into repentance and accountability in a way that feels practical, not performative. We talk about how shame distorts identity, why making things right quickly restores peace, and how parenting changes when you stop pretending you’re flawless. Jason shares how he approaches mistakes with his kids, what he wishes he’d learned earlier, and why comparison quietly steals joy and courage.

Then the conversation shifts into the reality of military service: the responsibility a medic carries, the training culture that shapes standards, and what the public often misses about care for families after a loss. Jason also opens up about military mental health and PTSD, including a season of depression, nightmares, hypervigilance, and the moment he knew he needed real help. We walk through intensive therapy and the stellate ganglion block, sometimes called a neurosympathetic reset, plus a thoughtful look at emerging trauma treatments like ketamine and ayahuasca in controlled settings. We close with Ether 12:27, “thorns,” and why weakness can be the very thing that keeps us close to God.

If you want a story-driven conversation about resilience, faith, military life, PTSD recovery, and choosing growth over fear, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

They're just afraid to try. Why are you afraid to try it? Why are what are you afraid of? You're gonna fail.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Fail. Failure.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

And what does that mean? You know what I mean? Like and people think have the definition of that so much, I think, is like a defining moment or something. We we you we all have things that we're going that you know, these thorns in our side, like Paul had uh that he prayed thrice to have removed, but the Lord would not remove. And he did that because he loved him. Yeah, he gave him something that he could not overcome on his own.

SPEAKER_05 0:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Because he loved him, because it would keep him close to him. Yeah. Um, I mean, because you know, you because you you're a medic, right? You're going to a unit and you're like, okay, I'm a medic, you know, and they're like, yeah, yeah. When somebody gets hurt, here's your rifle. Come on. What are you talking about? Here's your rucksack. Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, we got a twelve, we got a 12-click offset when we get out of this helicopter. Like, what you mean? I got a ruck, you know, so there's a lot of things you find out about, like just because your job is something. Right, right. You know, but uh that's what made me I think I think made me just love it even more. You know what I mean? And just uh pour myself into it more.

SPEAKER_04 1:25

Everybody, welcome back to the Jackson Howe podcast. Thank you for tuning in. On this episode, we sit down with Jason Knowlton. Jason is active duty military serving in the army as a combat medic. He takes us through some of his uh early childhood and teenage years and uh struggles there and uh and even into his early adulthood. Uh Jason maintains that his faith uh and the the raising from his parents and teaching him about faith and faith in Jesus Christ has always really brought back brought him back to where he needs to be in life. Uh he talks about how his uh military service has really helped him find purpose and the the joy that he finds in uh wearing the uniform and serving his country. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode, so be sure and watch or listen to all of it. And if you are watching on YouTube, be sure and hit that like and subscribe button. Uh if you're watching on Facebook, the same like and subscribe. Uh if you are listening on the podcast platforms such as Spotify and Apple, be sure and leave us a review and rating. And on all the platforms, be sure and uh and leave your comments and joining the conversation. We would greatly appreciate it. Uh, all that uh helps out the algorithm and helping uh spread this podcast. So be sure and share it with anyone that you feel like may be interested. Enjoy the episode, and we'll see you on the other side. All right, well, Jason Nalton, good to have you, man. Good to be here, man. Uh so you are you drove down from Can or were you still in Kansas?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Where are you at? No, no, no. I'm in I'm in Columbia and Columbus. That's right, that's right. Yeah, you Kansas a few years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was that was a starting.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

That's why you were able to get here so uh so quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

About four hours, yeah. Gotcha. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

So how long have you been in Columbus?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

So yeah, I've been I've been here a while now. So um we get we got us we got stationed here in 20 uh 2017. So yeah, same same year everything happened with daddy and stuff. So gotcha, okay with Jay and Daddy. Okay. And that was kind of the intent behind it. Right. Be a little closer to mama and done. You know.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Be able to drive in at a moment's notice, kind of like with with what happened.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

It kind of serves its purpose. That's right. So very good. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

So uh we've got this little little tails uh questionnaire here. Uh I'm gonna start out while I ask a couple of a couple of questions here. Um uh for those of you out there that has never heard of it, it's uh pretty cool little um conversation starter. Uh and it's got, you know, this one here is the uh the life edition, uh, but there's one for families, one for couples, one for friends, and everything. So just uh starting out, uh I'm gonna throw a couple of these at you. Okay. I haven't pre-selected and we haven't uh you got the decks connect again.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

That's right, yep.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

All right, first one. Um tell me about one of your most treasured memories.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Oh man. Um I got a lot of those. Jeez, that's sort of like what's your favorite song or something? And thank goodness for it. Uh you know what? I don't know why I just came to mind. But yeah, um man, growing up, uh, you know, I've been very blessed to have a lot of mentors and stuff. I think people, you know, thank goodness the church calls people to do things because I don't know if anybody wants to mentor me by volunteering, but uh but no, um just drive I'll tell you what driving over here, uh memories kind of started flooding back because I'm familiar with this area a good bit, but yeah. Um I would have to say scouting. Okay. Yeah, Camp Tolichi comes to mind. Yeah. Um, you know. Um a lot of a lot of good memories uh from that. I just th I think about I know when you ask me something like that, I my mind automatically goes into pivotal things, you know, things that I'm able to, you know, the Lord is able to use and draw back my memories too for inspiration or hope or you know encouragement and stuff like that. Right. Um yeah, that's not very specific. Uh that's very general.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

Yeah, well, I think a lot of times uh those special memories, big memories do come from our youth. Uh and something like Tolichi where the sand gnats are in the hot July sun at them scout camps.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah, yeah. First learning how to rough it a little bit. Right, yeah, you know, and not knowing that, you know, it would get worse. Right. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Didn't realize you were living the good life.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, yeah, no, I would go very many times that would be more like a vacation. Uh, but at the time that was that was that was roughing it back then. But you know, it was building character, it was building mental calluses, it was um, you know, setting really setting me up for success, you know, later in life. And so I don't know now looking back, I don't think about like, oh man, this one time I got this really great thing for Christmas, you know. I think more along the lines of things that have um that that have been pivotal in my life that um and the people that I was around and um friendships that I that I made during those times that were important to me, that benefited me later in life too. Um, you know, I think about I gotta go see him on the way out of here, but uh I don't know if we we name drop on these things or not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can. But yeah, yeah, well, I gotta go, I gotta stop by and see Bob Cardwell. Right. On the way out of here, he was like a second daddy to me in a lot of ways. That's right. He don't he may he may or may not know that. He probably does.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

I don't know if you noticed his flag on the way in. Um his flag. He's got a uh on his flagpole and everything. Uh my son Chase just just installed his flag. Uh oh really? Yeah, he's doing a little little summer project.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Where uh he's uh he sold uh I think six of them so far where he'll go out and install these flags and leading up to the 250th uh anniversary of America.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, like many people in my life initially when I met him, I didn't like him a lot. But people that ended up being important for me. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, because he was kind of a he was just getting out of the Air Force good and moved here, and you know, he had all these rambunctious kids that, you know, ended up becoming some of my best friends. Yeah, that's me. They just fit right in with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But uh he's he's what I needed. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

Well, that's good. Uh so you you you you brought up scouting as uh as one of as a pivotal memory. Um I'll go ahead and just bring bring this up. What are your thoughts on where the the the church's young men program has gone without scouting over the last last six years?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

You know, I'll be honest, I think it's been a difficult transition. I uh because of how foundationally developed the Boy Scouts of America organization was for the church. It was an easy plug and play for the church. And not to say that the church is lazy in that respect, but the church is very good at recognizing value and uh and and you know an enrichment in our lives and incorporating those things that are good and and I think that it was inspired, that it was made a part of the church's initial you know, youth, uh uh, you know, a large part of the church youth program, even though it wasn't all of it by any means. It was a good part bit part of it. But I think I think you know, I don't know. I think uh, you know, all I can speak to is our you know what I've observed, um, and I think that that that I think there's a little bit of a struggle, you know. The church is a volunteer organization to begin with. Nobody, it's an unpaid ministry. Um and so um there's nobody dedicated to this thing um in in the same respect, and it's not as easy to navigate, I think, as the Voice Scouts was because yeah, you know, what are we gonna do for activities and all those things? Well, that was that path was laid out with merit badges. That path was laid out with summer camps that were already organized that we were just gonna show up to, pay our fees, and yeah, participate in. And now it's all on us.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

And um, and in our state, the Columbus, Georgia state, you know, we have some inspired leaders and such. Uh, but I I I think that they're trying to, but at the same time, it's forced them to lean on brethren and sisters within our uh with within within our region and area that have skill sets that they can come in and I mean they've used me a few times as well, you know, just based on what I do, um, you know, to try to teach classes or, you know, introduce them to new concepts and things like that that are going to benefit them and maybe spark their interest or something for a career, something they may want to do later in life. And and so, you know, uh so I think that from that aspect of it, it it it brings in more participation from outside of just the young men's organization.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

You know, we're now looking for brothers who can maybe come in and show these boys how to do a good workout, or yeah, you know what I mean, or speak to them about finances, and so we bring brothers that are good at that or or from the medical field or um, you know, brothers that are teaching at the college about, you know, uh horticulture or stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Yeah, I think, you know, I think of the scripture in the Doctrine Covenants where it talks about you know uh be having the house of God as a house of order, you know, house of prayer, house of faith. So and the and the church itself is very, very structured, very organized uh worldwide. And when when the scouting was was taken away, we kind of didn't know what to do. Yeah. Because we we we we didn't have that structure that you that you talked about. Yeah. And if you'd have asked me, I wouldn't have known what to do either. Right, yeah. Yeah, what are you talking about? How do I run a young men's organization without scouting?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean we but we've had we've had to figure it out. And but I think the youth have seen our efforts as well, and they appr at least appreciate what we're trying to do. Yeah. So that's it's not it's not like they uh observe it as a as a as a failed venture.

SPEAKER_05 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

You know, they they see well well they really do. I know that they got full-time jobs and they, you know what I mean, they're trying to put all this stuff together for us. And right um, I think they appreciate seeing what we do, which I think is good too, because they're gonna be doing it soon themselves.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Don't think they are, but they are.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

Well, I mean uh you mentioned mentors and uh thinking about brother Cardwell, Bob Cardwell, uh back in the day. I mean, you're gonna have people missing uh mentioning Brother Nolton, you know, back back in the day, you know?

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah. Yeah. Uh I hope so. Yeah. You know, I've always been able to be used as an example. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

For good or bad.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, exactly. You know, um and I'm okay with that. Yeah, you know. I'm okay with my and I that's that's one thing that I've that's how I've raised my boys. I've I've I've made sure that um that they know all of all of me.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

You know. That they they that they don't see me, you know, because if they ever see me fall or something like that, and it tries to be brushed aside or under the rug or ignored or not brought up or not spoken of, that that there's a um that there's some kind of secrecy or you know, or shame that that must be um incorporated with just this experience that we have in these bodies in this this life.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

You know, and I think that they have understood that to a degree. And they're better than me, so I think that's worked.

SPEAKER_04 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

All of them are.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Well, that's what we hope. I mean, that's as as parents, as fathers, uh, that's that's what we hope that eventually, you know, and that's why we teach so much that we want our children to be better than us, to to achieve more than us, but to be more successful.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

And I love that you bring out about kind of I mean, obviously I'm sure you I and I mean I haven't I haven't shared, you know, details of past mistakes and sins and things like that with the city.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Well, the gore details I don't think are important.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Right, absolutely. But they need to see and know that that we're not perfect, right? And that we don't teach in a way that we are perfect. And one of the greatest examples that I uh love out of the scriptures is uh is Alma uh there in the Book of Mormon when he's he's teaching his sons. Uh Corianton, I can I I can't think of the other uh chapter 36, I think. There, yeah. And uh and I love where he says, he says, Do as I have done. Um and the reason he can say that, even though he fought against the church growing up and did everything he could uh against it, he said he says, Do as I have done. And the reason he can say that is because of the the repentance process of being able to uh go to our heavenly father, ask for that forgiveness, turn his life around. Um, and that's why he can say, Do as I've done. Yeah. And and and share those, share those examples in his in his life.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

No, that is powerful, you know. Uh and I think we want the we're we want so much to to reserve innocence in our children that and sometimes I think it can spill over to to miss the purpose of what you just what Amma was discussing and what the point you were trying to make through his example as well is um we've got to really understand how to repent. What what that looks like.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Because that's the only thing. I mean, i if I can just teach my sick my children that I mean, I know Bruce Porter, I don't know if you've ever heard of him or not, but he's on a he's been on a podcast a lot um uh with a guy who does some really in-depth um gospel topics and stuff. But he he uh he's uh he's he said he used to pray that his children would um just be the best version selves and just be blessed and protected from things. And he said about halfway through raising his first couple of children, he started asking the Lord to let them experience as much hell as necessary for them to come into the Savior.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

You know, and I thought golly wishing some bad stuff. Right, you know, but if you understand what this is all about, and like you know, either God God is either everything or it's nothing, right, you know, to me. And there's no in between, you know. And with that attitude, then if he's everything, then I don't have to worry about anything that enters in my life, you know. Uh because no matter what, um he he he has allowed it to, and if he's allowed it to, and even if he hasn't, if it's on even if it's on my own um, you know, poor judgment or what have you, um the atonement covers all of it regardless. You know. And so, man, if we could just I I I I th I think we danced around enough because when I was coming up, I felt like it was almost like, well, if you if you have to repent, then it means you're a bad person.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Right. Yeah.

unknown 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

And and and what and that's probably not how they described it to me, but my mind understood it that way.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

Well, I think I think naturally we all kind of go that way.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

I I don't know, I just I think that's part of the the the mortal the the the the natural man. We we realize that sin keeps you separated from God. Yeah. And so now I'm a I'm a bad person. Yeah. Right. Um But that's that's not what it doesn't mean. I I think I heard uh someone has said you're a good person that have just made bad choices.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Right. Well that's the truth. Yeah, you know, that's the truth. That's absolutely the truth. I believe that, you know. Uh and I'll make people want to be around you if you want to continue making those choices very much, you know, and that's human nature too. Um, but yeah, in the scriptures, I I've only found one place uh where we've been instructed to do anything quickly, and and it is repentance. Repent, right? Speedily repent, you know. Because of what you just said, the quicker you do that, the the the faster, the less time Satan has to continue to influence us, okay, and also allow him to ensnare us more deeply and more fully, you know, and and and that's that's been my experience. And I've I've had to learn a lot of these lessons um outside of the scriptures, you know what I mean, um, through my own mistakes and stuff, but I think that that's okay too, as long as we get it and we understand it, you know what I mean? And and there's a there's a lot more freedom, I feel like, too, whenever I've done something wrong and I've caused harm to another person. And I recognize it. And I don't, dang, I wish I hadn't done that. I'm embarrassed about it. They know about it, now they're thinking this about me, and they're probably gonna tell other people what an idiot I am and how mean I am or what a bad person I am. Um because even without the influence of the adversary on me and being under his influence because I haven't repented and made things right, my own mind will do a lot of things to me without his help.

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

You know, and so I've learned that if I can just go to somebody and say, Jackson, when I did this, um you know, I didn't mean to cause you harm, but I know that I did. And I think that I harmed you in this way. And I want you to know that I'm sorry about that, and I'm gonna do the very best I can to never do that again to you. And I hope you'll forgive me. And by the way, is there anything else that I might have done to you that I may not be aware of that caused you harm? I want to know about that too, you know. So I've had to learn some very specific ways to navigate because I bump around into this life and I'll harm harm people without even knowing it sometimes. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 19:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

And um that that's that's hard to do to walk up to somebody and say, look, I was wrong. Yeah. I messed

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SPEAKER_04 19:58

up.

(Cont.) Finding Purpose Through Military Service

SPEAKER_00 19:59

But back to what we were originally discussing, though, like the freedom that comes from it though. Yeah. I mean, I like walking around this world a free man. Yeah. And not having to look over my shoulder and not, well, I can't stop at that convenience store and get gas because there's that guy that, you know, that kind of a thing. That's right. You know?

SPEAKER_04 20:18

That's where those that's where those uh those chains begin to bind you and and and restrict you. Yeah. Uh you're not free. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You're you're you're you're losing the freedom that your soul seeks to have.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

Yeah. And that pride and ego will is the only thing that's preventing you from doing it. That's right. You know, because you take kids playing in a sandbox at five. One picks up a truck and hits another one in the head with it and they start crying. And five minutes later they're playing with each other again. Again, right, yeah. Yeah. I mean, kids just prefer they we at a young age, we learn so much from children and their behavior and their interaction with one another that um that we seem to forget. But it's that pride and ego as we get older, you know, the fear of making a mistake or admitting a wrong, you know, because they choose happiness over anything else. Kids do. Yeah. You know. And at some point, somewhere down the road, we choose to be right more than we choose anything else. Right, yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_04 21:17

I it's funny you say that. I saw I literally today I saw a little video. Uh this mother was just videoing as she was washing dishes and everything, she had her phone set up, and so she's showing her kids, and these are small kids, these are probably three and four years old, and uh the two kids start getting mad at each other, and the mother doesn't do anything, she just lets it go. Well, they both those kids end up biting each other. End up biting each other, and they're both crying and stuff. The mom, she's just carrying on, she don't she doesn't do anything at all. And then literally within just a few minutes, they are they are checking on each other, they are hugging, and then they're playing again.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

Exactly what you said.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

It's awesome, man. With adults, I might have been told of you for 25 years. That's right. If you bit me on the arm. You know what I mean? That's right. And it happens. Siblings do it. You know? And it's and it's sad, but at the same time, I understand. You know what I mean? I don't judge them for it. You know, I realize that, you know, that that I mean, that's the same thing with like I think we do that with like, you know, in churches and stuff like that too. Not just our church, but, you know, but way that we can take offense by by people just being humans around us. You know what I mean? But I think I think a lot of it has to do with what we expect out of one another. You know, I expect things out of you that you're not that you have no idea about. And when you violate those expectations, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Not my expectations. That's right. You know what I mean? It's like me directing a play and not giving anybody the script. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so you've understand that that analogy. Yeah. I'm not the director anymore, and I'm thankful for that. Yeah. I'm just, I'm, I'm just an I'm I'm a I'm an actor, you know. That's good. I'm an actor in the play. I'm trying to do my best. You know what I mean? I'm trying to I don't even know my script half the time. Right. Yeah. I'm not gonna be mad because you mess yours up. I mean, I still will sometimes, but I try not to. I try to remember that.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Um so you so you're a member of the Church of Jesus Christ without any saints?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Uh how long how long have you been a member of the church?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Uh since January of uh 1988.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:37

Uh so how how old were you when you were baptized?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Uh so I was eight years old.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Eight years old. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, I just turned eight December 29th. I want to say I think it was January the 8th, if I were to be spot on.

SPEAKER_04 23:52

So uh let's get into your uh your upbringing just a little bit. Uh just maybe tell us about your you know background, upbringing of the church and so forth, and you know, maybe take us up through early adulthood a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Okay. All right. This might take up the rest of the podcast. But I'll try, I'll try to I'll try to be brief. So I was I was born uh like I said, I just kind of mentioned my birthday, December 29th, 79. I'm 46 now. Um, but yeah, my name was James Ellis Lawhorn III. Okay, and so I was born to Jay and Darlene Lawhorn at the time. And uh and and uh life happened. Uh they they uh they had to um they're well Jay's dead now and I love him. Um but yeah, he he he was a he was a rabble rouser, you know what I mean? So he he he was uh he had his own issues going on at the time. And anyway, uh and so uh an incident happened and and I had to go to the hospital, and uh, you know, to my understanding, um my my abolish mother tried to um explain it away and they they weren't buying it, you know. So say I fell off the bed or something, but I'd actually was asleep in a bassinet that Jay was unaware I was in, and he kicked it and I kind of flipped against the wall kind of thing. So anyway, um, but then uh kind of got attention of the state and and uh one thing led to another, and I was put in foster care, and who I call mama now, Mary Knowlton, um, and she uh she wasn't gonna stand to walk around on the earth not knowing where I was at, but I was okay. Her and Jerry uh Knowlton had the discussion, they decided to adopt me, and they raised me up, um, you know, alongside my brother Cliff, who I'm eight months apart from. It's always fun telling people he's eight months older than me. Right. Um but uh but I but either way, we grew up in Pierce County. Um grew up, went, you know, kindergarten through high school there. Um, you know, I didn't really I didn't realize how much that stuff had an effect on me until I got, you know, started to get a little older. I always kind of felt like an awkward person, you know what I mean. I always kind of felt like the lowest guy in the room when I walked into the room. Everybody was kind of up here and I was down here, you know. Uh a lot of self-worth issues, worth worth issues, um, you know, growing up. And it wasn't anybody's fault. It's just how I felt. But it caused me to uh even I was raised right, you know, and thank goodness, you know, I was raised in the household I was raised in. Um uh, you know, didn't weren't anything crazy going on in my there wasn't any drinking or smoking or drug use or anything like that. You know, they were very, very uh, you know, um faithful members of the church. Um, but uh, but you know, I for whatever reason, I I just wouldn't take your word for it.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

You could tell me you could tell me something was, you know, and I can maybe see the logic in it, you know, but I had to find out for myself. It was uh it was a trust and verify situation for years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like that poison Ivy over there, don't touch it. You know, I'd have to go rub my hands in it and see why. Make sure. Yeah, but I'd be able to tell you later, um, you know, in great detail why you shouldn't do that. Um, but anyway, and so my life was filled with a lot of those things. But in the midst of it, you know, I was a very active guy, very athletic, I feel like, and loved sports, love to compete. That definitely gripped me at an early age. Um, just loved it. Um, anything to do with any kind of competitive sports. So I played all of them that I could. Up into high school, um, you know, uh my interest uh, you know, varied. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know what I say this all the time now and it's stupid, but you know, it's true. I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Hey, I'm right there with you. Uh yeah, I just like leave my options open. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

That's hey, I'm gonna start using that. You know, using my options open.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Because if you locked yourself into a certain thing, I mean I I just always thought about it like, my gosh, how can anybody want to do the same thing every day for 30 years? Right. That is the stupidest concept I've ever heard of. Yeah. Unfortunately, I mean there's some wisdom in it if you want to retire and you want to be able to stop working at some point and better live off of your efforts. But um, but anyway, that was kind of what that was about for me. And so I kind of, you know, I I was just still trying to figure it out, you know. Um, but uh, you know, I I I don't mind saying, like I told you before we started this, I'm an open book. I don't really care. Um, but you know, I I got to where I just I was going to school to be sociable. I just wanted to go hang out with my friend. That was about it. You know what I mean? I think you know, I was bored with everything but history. Uh history was my favorite subject. It's the only, you know, uh I can both, you know, I I never made like A honor roll or anything like that. But I mean I had 100 average in all my history classes. Okay. You know what I mean? It was just something that gripped me and I saw the value in it. And um, you know, Daddy Jerry, he was very intellect, he was an intellectual. Um, you know, he might not be able to tell you what size pipe that is over there, tying into that waterline. But he could tell you, like, you know, in the spring, in the shady side of the mountains in Ireland, what mushrooms are going to pop up. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 29:06

Yeah, I think he wasn't he a big reader, I think. Yeah, he always had a book. Oh yeah. Yeah, always had a book.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, um, but he he was he would always one thing that always impressed me about him too is that you know, one good example that he set for me is he started his day off. If I ever did get up early without being woken, um, because I didn't like to do that either, uh, you know, he'd be at this he'd be at the kitchen table reading the scriptures, it'd be five o'clock in the morning or whatever. Um you'd catch him doing that all the time. You know, that's one thing I that I will say that I'm I'm grateful for my my parents is they they weren't uh they didn't just teach me those things because I say so.

SPEAKER_05 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

You know, um thank goodness had a lot of examples of what it looks like when you're living this thing, you know. And I had no idea what value that would have for me um as I tried as I got into adulthood and and parenting and stuff like that. Um, you know, so but but anyway, I guess that brings us up to high school, you know, and what I what I was getting to is that you know, I failed the ninth grade three times. Okay. For attendance. Okay, because I was an idiot. Yeah. I was an idiot, but I was just uh yeah. I was just skipping school and stuff like that, you know, driving my mama nuts, daddy too. Um not I I'm sure they thought I was gonna wind up with a uh with a with an inmate number next to my last name at some point. Um and they were probably right, you know. Um but a lot of things happened. Uh, you know, like I said, the influence that I had around me were very impactful. I just remember going, I was it was my fourth time through the ninth grade, and I I showed up for school again, and my teachers, one of my teachers is like, it was Miss Beth Bly. She was my science teacher, and she says, she put she stopped class, saw my name on the roll rolls, and she stopped class. And she said, Jason, come let me talk to you outside. I said, Okay. She goes, What are you doing here? I said, I'm coming to school. She's like, son, you're this is your fourth time in the ninth grade. She walks me down there to Brother Carwell's room, has a conference, okay. And they sit me down and they're like, Look, brother, the state of Georgia has this rule that if you're over 21 years old, you can't graduate high school. Right. How old are you right now? Uh, I'm about to be 18. Okay, you're not gonna be able to go through the next three years and be able to graduate. Anyway, so yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

I didn't I I I didn't realize that. I know. I mean, we're I mean we're about practically the same age, and I didn't uh I I I missed that.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah, but but either way, um, so they convinced me into going and out to the uh continual education thing. But I ended up graduating with my classmates. Did you? Because I went and they I went and took some, you know, a month or so of like GD classes and took the test. So I graduated in June of 1998 with my graduating class.

SPEAKER_04 32:02

So that must be why I didn't uh why why I missed why I missed that.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And I'm sure they didn't appreciate that very much because they were all working hard trying to get through school, and here I am just showing you know, just doing whatever I want, and I just got but anyhow. That's hilarious. But yeah, and uh and uh that was about the time my brother was getting ready to go on his mission. He left July 21st of 99. Uh yeah. And uh that and I decided I want to go on a mission too. You know, I really wanted to, I had a desire. But the the way that I had lived my life, you know what I mean, and the things that I had gotten involved in, uh, you know, it just it had too much of a uh I say it's I had too much of a it could sway me too easily. Um, you know, and so I had a difficult time. Daddy was the bishop at the time. Yeah. And uh, but anyway, ended up moving to Jacksonville to have a geographical change, you know, and then like the saying goes, wherever you go, there you are though. Yeah. You know, and so I found myself again down there, you know, but that's when I met my wife. And the girl was gonna become my wife, yeah, Jessica. So we we've been together since August the 18th of 99. Uh she said she'd be my girlfriend. So yeah, if you do the math, I moved down there to go on a mission July twenty first of ninety nine. And not even a month later I had a girlfriend. Right. You know, so but anyway. But uh, you know, I had the opportunity to teach her about the gospel and stuff like that, and um, you know, I actually still tried to go move back home and and prepare myself to find out go on my mission, but and she moved up to Tennessee with her daddy and you know, she said she wanted to take the dis she wanted she wanted to join the church, and I was like, Well, I said, how about let's do it this way? Because I want you to have a testimony.

unknown 33:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

I don't want you to, you know, I don't want you to join the church because me. Yeah. It's not gonna do you any good. I said, so I'll send the missionaries over to you, and then whatever happens, happens. Well, about three months later, she called me and asked if I'd come up there and baptize her. Wow. So in Rockwood, Tennessee. Okay. And so we all took a family trip up there. I baptized her. Daddy confirmed her member of the church the next day in sacrament meeting, and um, you know. That's awesome. Yeah, the rest was history. Yeah, rest rest is history, right? So that's all the way up to about 21 years old. Okay. Very good. If that was I don't know what that was.

SPEAKER_04 34:19

No, yeah, that that that was great. That was great. So uh so what was it, and maybe you know what kind of work did you do? Uh, and you don't really have to get into that, but what was it and when did you finally decide, okay, it's time to join the military.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Man, I've always wanted to. Um we were pregnant, we got married in twenty, me and Jesse got married in 2001. And um and we got you know quickly or quickly got pregnant with with Brady, my oldest son. And uh as you well know, 2001's a kind of important year. We started talking about military stuff. And I remember sitting in my uh, you know, we had moved back to Blackshire, and uh we were just kind of looking for a place for us to, you know, get ready to start our family. So I was still we we mama let us move back to with her at the time while we were still trying to figure all that out, and that's when the towers fell. And uh excuse me. And I just remember um I love history, I love military, so I have great respect for her. I know this is a very choice, blessed land, and um you know I understand those who I understand why people are willing to sacrifice even the ultimate sacrifice for this. And so that's always kind of been in me. And so when the towers fell, I was one of the guys that was in on it was September 22nd of 2001 when the recruiting stations opened back up. I was one of the guys in line. Okay, and uh unfortunately you had to have your spouse's acknowledgement and acceptance and approval if you were going, and my wife willn't have nothing to do, her pregnant with Brady, nothing to do with sending me to go to war, right? You know, like holy crap, we ain't even got started yet. And you're already trying to like put your life. Yeah, you know. And that wasn't what I was trying to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just so so that's that's that's so if that if that helps explain a little bit why I ended up going, but you know, obviously I couldn't do that. You know, I was just like, well crap, I'm gonna fit and I went, got a job, uh, worked in a prison system for about four years. Um that's it's it's local, it's not for the state, it was a private prison company. And I enjoyed that. Um it was kind of military style, you know what I mean? So it kind of satisfied that. And um after about four years of it, just going to work every single day in the living room of Satan himself with what you're exposed to. You know, it's not like where you want to go if you want to have a you know a good day at work, you know what I mean? But that's where you're working at. Just got burned out. And I quit and didn't have a job. And I went and work with Barry Bennett, hanging vinyl siding. Right. You know, I did that for about six months and decided to start my own little thing and you know didn't have a clue how to run a business.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

You know.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Um it it it's it's very uh very different from you may be the best vinyl siding installer in the world, yeah, but then you start trying to run a business on doing that, it's it's it's it's completely different.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

But yeah, yeah. I gotta make a lot more decisions. That's right. Yeah, and just when's the vinyl gonna be here since I start on this house. But uh but anyway, I did that for you know, and I call this a noting factor. I started that in around 2006, and as we all know, the housing crash in 2008. That's how things go. That's right, you know. And then uh, you know, I prayed about it, you know, and I thought I said, man, what I gotta do, you know, and I'm surrounded by a bunch of good men. You're you're one of them. And um, you know, I was Charmore inspired me to go back to school, and he and you know, I talked to Stephen about it too. You know, I was just like, man, I'm kind of scared to go by, but I feel that's what I need to do. You know, he's like, Well, look, man, Stephen put it to me like this. He's like, How are you gonna be in four years? I was like, well, probably 28, uh 29. Okay, well, you either be you can be 29 and have your degree and all that stuff. You know, I was just like, okay, well, that was easy. Right, yeah. It's kind of like running a business too. Right. You start a school with a family and a business on top of it. And around that time, too, I got called to be the elder school president. And then, you know, as you know, in 2008. Yeah, I mean, my man, I'm living, you know, we were my grandmother was got put a nursing home, nobody was living in her house. They asked us to move into it, look after it, and and it burned to the ground in August of 2008.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so uh it was an interesting uh time in my life. I don't remember much of it. Um But yeah, I was a busy guy. And so uh but anyway, and during this time we're still having kids, you know, we're still having a baby. And Jessica went back to school to be a nurse, and she was a stay-at-home mom up to that point. And anyway, uh I I was still going to school and I was, you know, it's what I wanted to do. And I just remember sitting, I remember sitting at the college one day and uh I was getting ready to start trying to apply uh to go to PA school, and um recruiters comes up to me and he's like, hey man, what do you think about grad? You know, I wasn't fixing to graduate, but he was asking me if I was interested in going to OCS, which is to be an officer. I was like, look, man, I was like, unless you can pay for me to go to PA school, we ain't got nothing to talk about. And of course he turns around and says, Oh, well, the Army will pay for you to go to PA school. I was like, Really? Yeah, I was like, well, let's get started. You know, because I was like, hey, that's about a quarter million dollars I'll save. Right, yeah. Yeah. And that's how it started. Okay. But he was like, you know, you can't just go in as a PA. And I didn't know it at the time, but military recruiters are kind of snake oil salesmen. Okay, yeah. That's important to know.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

I mean, they're they're getting commission off their off their numbers, right? Here I'm looking at a guy wearing my nation's uniform. Right. I'm expecting some, you know, very high standards of dealing with me.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Um, but you know, it wasn't all it wasn't all lives, just some most of it. Um but either way, uh But yeah. But he said you're interested in the medical field, you know, we got we got this combat medic position I think he'd really like, and and he's like, keeps you in the medical field. After a couple years, you can drop your PA packet and go and be a PA. And the Army will pay for all of it. And you can spend correct, you can retire as an officer. I was like, Well, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 40:26

So so let me let me pause you there. Um so a few years earlier, Jessica's saying absolutely not. Ten years earlier. Okay, ten ten years earlier. Almost to the day. Okay. So so how do you how do you present this to her and what is her Oh, the same way the recruiter did to me.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Okay. All right. Listen, honey. You know, last time I wanted to go be a trigger puller, and then uh this is a I even used a different phrasing. I said, this is a health care specialist. Okay. These are guys that work in the hospitals. Yeah. Not a combat medic. No, no, no, no, I didn't say that word. Yeah, so you know, I'll be in a hospital, you know. I mean, I I only think they deploy. Right. And she's like, is that what you really want? Yeah, bless her heart. This girl mo she's just the most supportive woman, you know. There's a lot of things she wouldn't think twice about to support me in. You know what I mean? Right. And it's always the right things. But yeah, she she trusts me. She's like, Well, if you think it's what we need to do, do it. Okay. I said, I think it's what we need to do. Thank goodness she still listened to take ass for my advice sometimes. You know what I mean? Boy, I tell you what, she could very easily refer back to previous times in our lives where she could say, you know what, you're full of crap.

SPEAKER_03 41:46

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

You know, but yeah. So she was cool with it. And so uh, yeah, man. Went and took the ASVAB at 31 years old. You're right. Shipped off to basic training, Fort Seal, Oklahoma. From there went to San Antonio, Texas for my advanced individual training. And um did very did very well, you know. Uh for a lot of people, you know, their experience of basic training, they like to talk about how hard it is, stuff like that, you know. Not to say there wasn't challenges in it, but I think because of my age and I had prepared well physically and stuff like that, that you know because you gotta think the army's taking these street people.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

And they're trying to turn them into soldiers. And so everybody's not on the same level. You know. And so for me it was uh it was more annoying than it was hard, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

So uh but yeah. And from there, Kansas. You know, that was my first duty station. They call it the big the big red one. You know, if you ever see a patch with a number one in the middle of it, that's an army patch, uh that's the that's the first infantry division. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that was my first. And and yeah, and so yeah, I did a lot of jesus. I always say that for the record, wherever the cameras are at. I've yet to spend I've yet I've yet to spend one assignment in a hospital. Okay. I've always had my knees in the dirt. Right. And um man, I and you know, and to speak to why I didn't go to PA school and stuff like that, I mean that's I got in and I just fell in love with it.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

You know, it was just like, holy cow, like not only is uh is this, you know, giving me the letting me get the experience that I sought, you know, and have always wanted and wanted to be a part of something big. I was I've always just desired to be part of bigger things. Things are bigger than that.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

That's right, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

And so it did that for me. And I was like, man, and I saw what PAs did, and I was just like, yeah, I mean, dang, dude, that's boring. You know what I mean? Like I could not I couldn't do that. And uh and thank goodness I haven't, you know, and I could very easily have done so. You know, I could have very easily just submitted a packet and they would have just been like, heck yeah, come on.

unknown 43:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

I need PAs, you know.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

Um so I got a I've got a couple of uh I got one. One statement, and I got a couple of follow-up questions for you on that. Yep. So the first statement is when I heard you were signing up for the military, I was jealous. Really? Yes. Yeah. Because for the first time in your life you're jealous of me. That's good to know. No, and I tell you, I tell you why, because those feelings uh that you expressed around 9-11.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

You know, I had those same feelings. Um, but I didn't go and stand in a in a in a military line uh at the recruiter's office. Uh I was in I was in school at the time. Sure. And so I was on a I was on a path, you know, what I was planning on doing. But I had also in my in my life had thought about doing military service, but it wasn't never strong enough, you know, to go to go and sign up. To drop everything else.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

To drop everything else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:58

I mean, as you can see, I I love this country. I love I love what it stands for. And so the idea of serving your country in uniform has always been very appealing to me. It's all in my veins from both my grandfather who served in World War II. Uh my uncle was a Navy SEAL in Vietnam, uh, a brother-in-law Marine Corps, another brother-in-law uh Air Force. So it's all around me. Um, so when you when you had, I'm like, because again, you're 31, I'm 32 years old, I'm like, dang, dude, it's not too late. I can I can I can actually go and and still do how am I gonna sell this? That's right, yeah, exactly. Um so anyway, I never never never pulled the trigger on it, but that's uh that's one been one of those check marks that I would have loved to have been able to do. Um uh follow-up question is how much how much did you see, maybe looking back, the Lord's hand, in okay, uh I think I want to go to PA school and become a PA and the recruiter ends up showing up and and now now you're in the military and you you're uh all this fulfillment from earlier in your in your life and in your years is now coming to pass. How how much do you do you contribute a hand kind of thing?

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah, 100% to the Lord. Um, you know, because I I'll be honest, like I don't use the word jealousy, and I know you used it loosely when you're talking about me. But you know, I've always uh oh I I can say envious, you know what I mean, if I'm gonna be honest, you know what I mean? I always uh like when I could see people around me that seemed like they just had this roadmap laid out in front of them, they were just walking down the path.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

It it looked effortless. It looked like they weren't struggling with what do I want to do with this life that that that that I've been that I've been provided. And so that caused me to just kind of drift around a lot, not really kind of, I kind of just I would have to run into something, you know, and and and I think that was and you may you may see it differently with, you know, I may be describing your experience in life like you were in school when 9-11 happened and all this stuff, you know, it was kind of like you were locked into something already, but you, you know, but at the same time, like you kind of had an idea of what you wanted to be and what you wanted to do, and and you were following after those good those those worthy pursuits. Um, and so for me, it was I think the Lord a lot of times has to, he has to throw a log down in my road. You know what I mean? So I can't just pass by, you know, without me having to stop and think, you know, well, why is this roadblock here? You know, and then he then I'm easily, he's easy he's able to introduce something else in my face. So I don't know what would have happened if I'd have told that guy go kick rocks and pound sand and continue to to just forcefully impose my will upon where I think I should take my life.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

For me, I think the Lord um I I can look back now, it's sort of like the parable of the guy that uh uh of the street lighters in London. You know, it's like if you're standing on the street watching a guy on stilts turning on turning the key to the gas, lighting the the lamppost, moving down the road, you know, you don't really it's the same way with the my experience with my father. Like if you were to go to the highest point in London, you know what I mean? Like you may not you may not be able to see that guy as clearly anymore, lighting this but you can look out over that city and see everywhere he's been. Right. Right? Right. And so when I say uh in unequivocally yes, I know the Lord was influential in that. Um that that that that is one of the one of the moments that I look back to and say, yeah, I know this, and not that that that I proved that he proved himself to me that he has always been there.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

I think many times in our lives, and that what I was writing down here is that the the right thing is not always at the the right time in in our timing, right? So the right thing ten years prior was for you to join the military. I'd have probably died. Yeah you you never know what what would have happened.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

I mean, very obviously very, very possible. I know me. Yeah, at the at the beginning of the war with all that going on, I I know me. I know what I would have wanted to do. Yeah, be on the front lines, infantry, yeah. I would have been there. Went ahead and went to selection and you know, got on an ODA team and you know, might have been riding horseback through Afghanistan, you know, with some of the early members of uh, you know, special forces that initiated our first line efforts in Afghanistan in 2002. So yeah, I mean I know that I would have you'd have been right there in the midst of yeah. I I there's more, I can be doing more. You know what I mean? I know that because it's like my nation's been attacked.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

And I'm not about to let this come back. I'm not about to let let this enter my borders.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

If if I have to give up my life for it, and I'm okay with that. You know what I mean? I still feel that way today.

SPEAKER_03 49:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

You know, but uh but that's always been a superseding thing. It's similar to the desire you just expressed. It's no different. You know, I maybe took it a step further, you know, with what I just said, but I know that that those sentiments that you just shared would drive you to do the same thing. Yeah. And so yeah, I think the Lord has a plan for us. And part of that plan is us being here for it.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

100%. Gotta get to be here uh to to feel that yeah, uh feel that plan. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so I think I I think military was uh was always in the plans for you. It was just at a at a d later on in life. Yeah, you know, and that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

I had some maturing to do too.

SPEAKER_04 50:44

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

At 21, I was not ready. I was not mature enough to hand of I don't think to have handled the level of responsibility. I don't think people realize that. How much responsibility is placed on your shoulders, even at a even even at a lower rank, you know. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

Yeah, so so uh and I'm glad you brought that up. I actually have this on here, so maybe speak to that just a little bit of helping citizens understand a little bit more maybe the pressure that you feel, or maybe just what it's like being active duty service.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah, I think a lot of people share the same thing. I I don't think I can really describe it any more uh any better. Um, but you know, it's so you get in, you know, you're you're you're excited, you know, you want you're ready for this new challenge and and stuff in your life, and and there's a lot of dumb stuff now that you have to participate in that's not that you don't see on these commercials. Right. That your recruiter doesn't, you know, highlight when he's trying to by the way, heads up. Yeah, you know, somebody's gotta cling to buildings, you know, somebody's gotta take the trash out, you know. And it's not gonna be the guy that the the the first sergeant or the commander of the company that's going around and sweeping, you know what I mean? Right. And uh you know, there's this thing called area beautification, you know. Uh but you know, outside of those dumb things that you have to, you know, uh participate in, we call I I say they're dumb, but there's stuff that you don't think about when you're joining. Um, you know, depending on what your job is, of course, you know, and so I came in as a combat medic and I've been one uh the entire time and I've loved it. Um medics are very well resp respected, especially within the infantry community, for for a reason. Um especially and so I say if you're a good medic, you know, uh you know, they're they're called combat multipliers for a reason. Uh and and what do they do combat-wise? Well, they're not necessarily multiplying your firepower, okay? But when it comes to a mission that requires something that everybody knows we're gonna we're gonna catch some casualties on this one. And we don't know who it's gonna be. So everybody's gonna take has has a moment where they're like it could be me, you know. Uh and so medics, if they're good ones, those thoughts are very fleeting for the guys that are fixing to be in harm's way, right? And so that's the responsibility, I guess, I was speaking to, you know, because like that pressure's now on me. Like these guys are now expecting me. I know Doc's got me. I can run out into a hell of bullets. That's right. He's just gonna magically fix me.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

He's he's he's gonna work work some miracles.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

I've seen him do some very wazoo stuff, talk about terminology and the human body and anatomy and all these things, and you know, that he's been trying to like when he's cross-training me with his job, so I know because I mean, like, heck, if I go down, I want to make sure somebody knows what the heck they're doing too. So I I never try to be the guy with them all the knowledge. Like, if I got it, you're getting something too.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

And so that that level of responsibility is something that never, never leaves you when it comes to your job. And rightly so for the for the for the trigger puller. You know, the infantry man knows that that his skills have to be so sharp that when we engage, we're always coming out on top. For the very same reasons that I have to be very on top of my skills. You know, and so um, I mean, because you know, you because you you're a medic, right? You're going to a unit and you're like, okay, I'm a medic, you know, and they're like, Yeah, yeah. When somebody gets hurt, here's your rifle. Come on. What are you talking about? Here's your rucksack, let's go. Let's go. Yeah, we got 12, we got a 12-click offset when we get out of this helicopter. Like, you mean I got a ruck? You know, so there's a lot of things you find out about, like just because your job is something, right, right, you know, but uh that's what made me I think I think made me just love it even more, you know what I mean, and just uh pour myself into it more and and you know, and so anyway. The amount so may not have answered your question.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

No, no, that was good. Uh the the uh so Hollywood obviously a lot of times gets uh a bad rap for just making things so unrealistic, right? Obviously. Yeah. Um just over the top, yeah. Yeah, just just over the top. But I think one of the things uh just kind of for example, so you've got uh you got Rambo here, right? Yeah, yeah. Bullets flying all around, okay? You know, and he's gotten a few scratches here, you know, what have you. Uh, you know, but he's he's killing everybody.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yeah, or he gets shot and pours gunpowder in there and carterizers. That's right. Right, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

So uh one of the things I think they get accurate, not necessarily how it transpires, but the uh the level of training and skill that is within our military far outweighs the rest of the world. It it's crazy. Um not even close. Yeah, it it it really it really isn't. And then that's just that's just on the outside looking in. The the the amount of military precision all the way down to the infantryman, all the way up to the technology, yeah, is uh is is really leaps and bounds uh past everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Yeah, I mean now you got turds in every punch bowl, right? Yeah, yeah. And the military is not for everybody. Right. And a lot of people don't find that out until I mean I'm in it, now I don't want to be here anymore. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? But those th that those are, you know, those usually don't let tell you know, stand the test of time. Those people usually figure out, okay, I'm just doing three years, I'm getting the heck out of here, you know what I mean? Um but yeah, when it gets to the point where you got like people like myself that just that'll do it until they tell me to leave, you know. Uh yeah, I mean it's that that and and I wish if if you could have, you know, been beside me or omnipresent over the last few years, you know, um, with these special missions that we've been conducting in South America and stuff with our partner forces down there, like um, you know, trying to trying to get them up. They're not again, they're not gonna they're not gonna be where we are, and still especially not overnight, but man, we're just we're trying to get them, you know, a little closer.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

You know, and it's the same way we've done with any of our host nation partner forces that we have been had to fight alongside or anything else um, you know, since really Vietnam. Right. You know. Well, we've had like NATO forces and things like that that have, you know, that are with us or whatnot. But but it's night and day. It's night and day, and it all boils down, you know, like everybody everybody tells us about how much money that we pour into our budget and our d for the Department of Defense. And I'm not gonna sit here and say that every dollar is accounted for and spent spent appropriately. Um, but I will say that their tax dollars are not when it comes to training and what we use it for, we we are the best because of the sacrifices that those tax dollars uh are go toward it. Right. You know what I mean? And that and that and that way I don't with that being said, I don't have a big issue. Like people can complain about it, that's fine, I'll complain about it too, but I know that I've I've been a beneficiary of it.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

You know what I mean? Like I've yet to roll out with like some of these guys like in the Colombian military that you know um their medics are rolling around with a shoelace as a tourniquet.

SPEAKER_03 58:28

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Got a couple band-aids and some Tylenol. You know what I mean? Like they're not fixing to sit here and and and perform a blood front transfusion on a guy who who has lost a lot of blood, due to a femoral artery bleed because he blew his leg got his leg blown off by a mine. You know?

SPEAKER_04 58:46

Yeah, no, that that's definitely one thing that I don't mind paying taxes on. You know, it is is supporting and making sure the military has everything that they need. Yeah, from from from recruiting to having everything.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

My thing is like, well, I want I want your I want your son and your daughter to come home and you know as many as much of a piece one piece as possible.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

You know, like you don't want to have to get um the after action review that helps explain to you what my son was doing over there.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

You know, when he died. You know, and and and not ri and not get to answer ask any get any further questions really asked outside of that report, you know. And so, yeah, when mortuary affairs shows up at your door, you know what I mean? Uh, we do a really good job of that too, after, you know, after people have passed and stuff like that. I mean, we dedicate officers and NCOs to be with the family as long as they need them. People don't know that. It's not just like, hey, we're gonna get you through the funeral process. Um, I know of a I can tell you of a story right now. Um, a good buddy of mine who I helped escort his body back home to Puerto Rico. Um his wife still has a mortuary affairs NCO with her, and it was almost, it's almost been two years. Wow. He checks in with her daily, attends to whatever needs she has.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

Um That's that that's that's impressive. Uh you said it's uh the mortuary affairs is uh how you okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

Yeah, I mean like their main job is yeah, let's get you through the funeral. We're gonna support you in every way, we're gonna pay for the funeral, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna drive you where you need to go. Right. We're gonna help explain to you all of these all of these documents that you're fixing to get ready to review. Um we're gonna make sure that you get the money that uh that that is guaranteed to you from you know from your your loved ones death uh uh loss of life. Um until all those things are done, they don't leave. But if you still ask and request and would like for them to remain with you, they will. Wow. Yeah, that's good. But anyway, but she was a Polish immigrant, you know, she married, she she met him. She was from Poland, right? So she doesn't have family here. Right. You know, that's kind of the unique circumstances with her. People would be like, why in the heck does she want somebody hanging around that long, you know? Um but you know, she's wants to stay here, you know, wants to live in the house that they lived in together and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:07

All right, so I got I got two more questions for you, kind of specifically about uh military, military service. Um I think one of the advantages that uh that America has is the love of country factor. Oh, heck. And and and what it stands for. Um how much of the military personnel are in it for that, and maybe how many m actually just see it as more of just a career choice, like look, this is what I'm gonna do for a living. Um and I I not necessarily percentages or anything like that, but I mean, but what do you what what do you see?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

Yeah, I haven't ran a poll. I couldn't get you, I couldn't give you a percentage if I wanted to. Um I can just tell you through my experience, you know. But the community that I've been in after my first assignment has been a little bit more of what you typically see in service members who are I'm here to do it. Don't care what it takes, right? I don't care what it costs, you know. Um now there are there are you know communities of the military that aren't those frontline guys or whatever, you know what I mean? That they it is just a job for some of them, you know what I mean? And I'll I'll pick on the Air Force, you know, that's one of them. They're not required to be, you know, usually outside of the Hilton by the pool very often, you know, when they deploy and not take anything away from them. Like I will talk, you know, my JTACs and my, you know, my PJs and my TAC Ps, like they're a different breed. Um they're a little bit more of the special force community of the Air Force, but um those guys jump in with us and do everything that we do, you know, that have those jobs, you know. But yeah, I think a lot of people, but I mean, like, it's sold to them in that regard too by the recruiters. It's like, hey man, look, you're gonna get all this knowledge and ability and certificates and clearances and stuff that are gonna open a lot of doors for you, you know. So, you know, a lot of people come in with that in mind. Yeah. And I'm gonna get, you know, I'm gonna get $100,000 to go to college, you know, stuff like that. So uh, you know, you're gonna get you're gonna you're gonna bring in some people with that mindset, but at the end of the day, once they come in and they get unified with everybody else, it's just sort of like, we know what we're really here to do, right? Right. You know, like your job is designed to help us, you know, draw in closely and kill the enemy. And, you know, those are the things that that's what we do.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

And so um, so there's an element of it that's yeah, career-minded after after the military career, well, it may benefit from it, but um but typically from a political aspect of it, we're generally apolitical, very apolitical.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

People don't really, you know, you'll have a lot of people who will express their opinions about things here or there, but most of the people are you know, it's extremely patriotic. So you can imagine the demographic of you know, views and stuff like that with certain things, but so that kind of leads me into my my second question, which was so how long have you been in now?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:06

Uh 15 years. So 15. So you have seen you entered under Obama. I did. Okay, so you've been you've seen Obama, Trump, Biden, and now Trump.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

So what is the military morale, so to speak, up under different presidents? Can or can you even see it um and the fluctuation of recruiting and so forth?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

Um you know, so I've never been a drill sergeant, so I don't ever really get to see like the guys coming in, and you know, I never wanted to be a drill. Right. Um, you know, I did it one time and I was like, I saw their schedule. I wanted to be going and doing stuff. I don't want to be stuck in a uh a bunch of anyway, uh knuckle draggers and stuff like that, and trying to teach everybody how to you know, because like that's the thing in basic, right? You like you get in there and you're like, man, I'm gonna do a real good job, and they're gonna be proud of me, and they're gonna pat me on the back, and they're like, no, they treat you exactly like the guy that can't tie his boots over there.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

And doesn't know how to take a bath. Like you're no more special than them. You're all one person. Right. You know, and and that's how we view You're as strong as the weakest guy on your team, right? Yeah, anyway, you learn that real quick. Uh, but yeah, so I I can't really speak to like recruits coming. I know that, you know, I know that we got, you know, I've heard reports of, you know, like we were struggling to meet our numbers, you know, a few years ago. Um just, you know, uh shortly after COVID, um, a little bit, you know, you gotta think we were at war, we were we were at war for 20 years right at it. You know what I mean? And uh and so um during that time it was more, you know, people weren't really politically wouldn't really care. Um but when things began to be introduced from a like a social perspective, it really impacted things. It it it changed a little bit, I think, of the people's persp of of people's the public's perception of what the military was. Um, you know, and I speak more sp you know specifically to like um um certain movements that were that that that gained some traction.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

And and began to try to wedge themselves uh into uh the ranks. And and because like I was I'll be honest, I was worried when I joined, like, how's this dude from LA gonna think about me? Some you know, dude that grew up South Central or a guy that grew up in Brooklyn, you know, like I'm just this country boy from Blackshire, Georgia.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

You know, how they gonna feel about me? And you don't have time to think about that because you're getting you're getting it pushed in every day. Right. You know what I mean? And like they're they're on top of your tail, and you know, you don't have time to pick and you know, fuss or anything like that. And when you're in that environment, it's like we're all doing this together, we're suffering through this together. It it it you know uh trauma bonding is is a phrase that uh you know people like to use in those kind of situations. But um so there's definitely been an attitude um you know to to try to get a little bit give you a little bit more meat, and I'm not trying to dance around the answer, I'm trying to be careful that I'm not trying to misrepresent anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:10

That's right, and I'm not asking you to to get political and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Just kind of there were a lot of drastic changes that were made under the current administration that have benefited us. I'll just speak to what they do, you know, and what what what benefits we've received from it, the focus that we have received for the things that have kind of been neglected, um, you know, uh because um that's important too, because like if I know if I if I'm fixing to go out here and destroy my body and give you all I got for 20 years of my life, and I'm gonna walk away from it broken, um, you know, you're gonna have a hard time selling me that. You know, I have to know that I'm gonna be taken care of after this.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

Because they're 100% gonna get it out of you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

You know, you're going to give it, and it's not optional. The option is you get out if you don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

You know, but at the same time, you have fun with it. That's the only reason that, you know, a lot of people say, yeah, I'll go do all kinds of crazy stuff because I got tri care. You know, I got insurance. I'm gonna break my leg and be in a thousand pieces, they gotta put me back together. Right. You know what I mean? Like so, you know, um, but the mental health aspect, that thing is taking a toll on us too. Like, I had my first experience with it last year. That last year was a rough year for me. You know, I always kind of felt like that uh, and I'm just speaking to what like the military does for you too, and like what we see from different administrations. Like there's been a str there's been a strong emphasis placed back in on the things that matter, the basics, physical fitness, and right, you know, people can say what they want to about this administration, but like what we what we need is those standards enforced. You know what I mean? Like what what makes us what we are is not that we're just we're just wake up and we're just better than you. Well, we have we have a we we you know the standards don't are never supposed to be brought down to where you're at, or they're not really that good of a standard.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:59

If if uh if any industry, if any sector needs to be based on merit, it's the military. And and you know, your your ability to accomplish and move forward and get things done.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Yeah, I mean like you shouldn't promote ahead of me because you wear you like purple socks. Right. And I like green ones. Right. You know, like let's look at your record and stack it up against mine.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

And let's interview you. And let's pick the best person or the right person for the job. You know? Nobody can argue with those metrics. You know, they really can't at the end of the day, you know. Uh you got a lot of people, right? You know, I've been blessed with the way that I've been I've promoted, you know. Um I feel like every time that I have, it's been at the right time. It hasn't, I've never like been one of those guys that like, oh, I want to I want to be in charge, you know. I want to be I was always a little reserved with that because when you when you when you move into those leadership higher roles, people are looking to you to make very important decisions. Right? And so you you better be ready for it. And so uh I call it imposter syndrome a lot of times, you know, that I feel like that. But you know, I just resort back to what I know and I understand in my experience, and I've always been successful based on those things, and uh so far haven't made any real big blunders, you know. Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:23

So if if you would and if you if you don't feel comfortable, that's fine. Uh you said you mentioned the the the mental struggle last year. Uh yeah. Maybe uh if you could maybe elaborate elaborate on that a little bit and not a whole lot how how do you get through it and yeah, I mean a lot of do it like I do with my kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:40

I'm not gonna give you the gore details, right? But I'm gonna give enough to like because I want people to be aware of it, you know. Uh I'll be I'll be honest, I have always it's interesting, I've always felt we've been in certain situations exposed to certain things, and you know, I you know, I I'd always see the impact that it had on others, right? And it was and I I didn't it didn't catch me the same way that it caught them. And so I I kind of felt like, you know, we talk about the Lord's hand being in life.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

Yeah. I was like, oh, I guess, I guess, you know, I'm just you know, I don't think I'm better than them.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

You know what I mean? But like the Lord, I guess the Lord just, you know, this is just another thing, you know. It's not no big deal. I'm able to look at it the right way and move on, you know. Um but over time, it's like anything else. Uh there's a threshold. A lot of people don't hit that threshold until they're out. Right, okay. You know, and um, and so but for me, I I was still in. And so I was deployed at the time. Um, you know, I've been I've been back a little over a year now. Uh got back May 16th of last year. Um, and we were in the middle of a deployment. And so we're in we're in South America. Um, and so when it hit me, it was around February, and you know, and I've been blessed. I've got a lot of spiritual tools in my life that I've I don't just sit there and say, oh, the Lord's got me, you know, and I'm just gonna kick my feet up now, you know. I do everything that I can too. You know, I've incorporated a lot of things into my life that I've never thought that I would have the discipline to be consistent with. And prayer meditation's a big one in the morning for me. That's how I start my day. Okay, I make, you know, because this isn't my life, you know. Um, and so I say all that to say that when this when when these things started happening with me, there wasn't a cloud on the horizon, Jackson. There wasn't anything going on that was any different than any other day. Um, you know, matter of fact, I was kind of getting excited because I was gonna be in back in the city of the capital city of Bogota when conference was gonna happen this last last last fall uh spring, and I was gonna get a chance to watch it live and not just get clips of it when I had opportunities. Um it was a Saturday morning, one of the last it was the last Saturday of February of last year. I just you ever wake up, you feel like you're in a funk. You don't know what's going on. You know, after a few days, you're like, okay, there ain't nothing going on. What is this? You know, and so for me it was like, okay, well, I know I got some spiritual tools that I can use on these things and prayer meditation, breath work, grounding, mindfulness, all those things that I try to incorporate and I still use, um, but nothing touched it. So I started a little fast. You know, some things can only be broken uh through uh much prayer and fasting. Uh didn't touch it. I was like, oh boy, what is this? Uh and I started documenting it. Uh I'm a medic, you know, so like after a while, you know, it's time to start taking some notes on some things. And that's the only reason why I remember, you know, roughly what day it was when it started for me, because it was about three weeks into it when I realized that this is not going away. And it was just like this um as long as I now I know it was it was this depression that was just creeping in.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:58

You know, and I'm not a I've never really struggled with I've never struggled with depression. It's not a thing that I have, no people have. So anyway, this rocks on for a couple more months, and it starts getting worse. I start having nightmares, I start getting, you know, a little bit of flashbacks, I'll say things like that. Um I I be I become my awareness is heightened when it shouldn't be. You know what I mean? Like there's no reason for me to be this hyper aware of what's going on in my surroundings right now, you know. Um, and so uh it started getting now I I now, you know, I've always I've never really okay, I'm young growing up, I would judge people if they could, you know, if someone killed themselves. You know, I always thought, oh, they're you know, um but you know, it would always confuse people. So many people loved them. I don't know what in the world, you know. Um it got to that. That that became an option. And when that became an option, uh that's when I that's when I was like not playing this game. And so um I pulled my had a conversation with my my battalion XO and my uh operations serve major, and I said, hey look, I don't I don't know what's going on, but but I I I need I need some I need some real help here. And uh anyway, um, and they them knowing me uh immediately started I was you know I I had this conversation with them on a Tuesday, on a Friday I was landing in Atlanta to come home.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

And I I'm gonna take the them knowing you uh comment as normally being upbeat, oh yeah, you know, positive, you know, moving forward, life's great kind of deal.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:44

And two, they saw the change. Okay, but they didn't bring it up to me. They didn't say, hey, like I I can what's going on with you, Doc? You know, what's what's up? You know. Um so when I did come on the net with that or or or you know bring it up, right? You know, they were like, okay, this is okay, we know what this is now. Okay, we gotta get him to heck home. And so I went into some intensive therapy and stuff like that. I had to go to Texas and um ended up having a procedure called a um stella ganglion block, which is a um, it's uh you have a nerve bundle that comes out of your C2, C3, and um they they basically um inject uh a newman solution uh that travels down that neurological pathway to your amygdala. And what I didn't know is that my amygdala was broken, you know what I mean? Like it they call it prolonged exposure. You know, when you're when you're exposed to things so much, so it just it it just it stops working like it's supposed to, and your body's rather gonna have you in this hyper-aware state than it be you be in a vulnerable state.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:51

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

And so that's where it keeps you if it's gonna keep you anywhere, you know. Right. And so uh, but yeah, they were able to reset the my amygdala with that procedure. Um and it was it was strange. Uh I mean for me when I had it done, I I just I got very emotional. It was like somebody had opened a valve and all this emotion that was just kind of pent up released. And some people laugh when they had the procedure done. But I, you know, I just I'm I've got as I've gotten older, I've become a lot more of a sensitive guy when certain things, but I I just cried, I uncontrollably cried for about 15 minutes. I had no idea why. And until the nurse explained it to me. You know, they flew me up to Cleveland, Ohio for this. Um and uh but yeah, that's that's that was what was going on with me. These things were just trying to lock in and trapped in, and you know, it was my body trying to protect me, you know, and but over time, um, you know, seeing so much and doing so much and not really processing things, not having time to process things.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:53

Uh, you know, so so with so with that, uh you mentioned reset. Yeah. So is that is that literally what it is, like to to get it kind of back to back to normal? That's that's what they're doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

Yeah, so basically it just shuts it off and it's sort of like rebooting a computer.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:09

You've got to re-recalibrate, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:11

Exactly. Now at that the timing of it's important. Had I not gone through the intensive therapy that I had uh in Texas, uh, had I not start, you know, continued that, you know, attempted to continue that therapy and and and work through the things that were really the things that were eating my lunch that I wasn't aware of.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:31

You know, things that I'd been exposed to or in the context of war had to, you know, be a part of or what have you. So um that you know, because you're raised a certain way.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:43

And you're gonna put cast judgment on things that you have to do, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:48

Um, you know, I think about Nephi.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:51

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Absolutely. He he knew what was right and wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:55

So much so that he would argue with the Spirit of the Lord over it. Right. Okay? Those kind of things.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

And so, um, but anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:05

So your your ability not to keep uh not to keep it in and say, all right, I'm I'm recognizing this, now I've got to bring this up. Is there is there any kind of uh a hesitation on your part of thinking, look, I want to tough this out. I don't need that. You know, this shouldn't happen to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

Well, not only that, but my response, my role and responsibility that I currently held in in the setting that I was in. I didn't want to leave my guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:39

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:41

Yeah, I th I d just the the the natural man, the tough guy comes out in me thinking, like, look, I I can't let my guys down, right? Yeah, yeah. They need they need to do that. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:51

I've got I know I've got all this knowledge. I know everything about the mission. I know everything about what's going on. Like, you know, I know all the court, you know, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to explain this to somebody else on my way to leave and you know expect them to do a very good job with it. These are things that these are like medical plans that I'd orchestrated and designed and you know, like uh set in place so that when you know missions are conducted that, you know, and and things happen to people that there is no hiccup in the in you know in the chain of events that allows them to be taken care of like they're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:24

Yeah, there was a hesitation from that mainly, I think. That was the biggest thing, you know. Um but yeah, I and and I share that only it's it's I share that only because in in in the detail that I did because a lot of times you have things going with there's no real explanation for it. There's no re it doesn't logically make sense, right? And that's okay. Who gives a crap?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:45

You know what I mean? Like if it's going on, it's going on. Like you obviously aren't going to be able to solve it uh, you know, because it or it wouldn't be bothering you. You obviously lack the tools to be able to deal with it appropriately, yeah, or you wouldn't be in that situation. And it's okay to go and get the help that you need. By all means do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:08

And you you you tried to deal with it, or or at least tried to uh not deal with it, but tried to try to correct, you started kind of emphasizing the things, the prayer, the meditation, yeah, to try and to come out of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:23

Yeah, and and when those things were not working, that's when I was like, oh boy, this is not good.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:29

Yeah, well, I mean, kudos to you on being able to do that. So d does the military do they emphasize that more so now? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:38

You know, look, if you if you used to do something that was looked upon as um weak, not or or people would and and look, and rightly so. People would use the system, right? Right. When I say use the, when I said there's turds in every punch bowl earlier, that's what I mean. Like there's gonna be people that are gonna try to find a way out of doing something that's asked of them that they don't want to do. That's hard. Yeah, right. And so, excuse me, let me belch in there, but um, but yeah, so with when it comes to that, that I think it had a lot to do with and plus what we were, man, what we're coming out of, dude. I don't think we realize the level of um damage we got walking wounded among us. I'm I'm telling you right now. There are dudes that are walking around, they ain't got a clue what is going on with them. And I'll use an example. When when it when it happened to me, and and people got wind of what was going on with me, I was getting phone calls from leaders that I've had in the past that were like, hey bro, I know what's going on. You know what I mean? Like, I'm telling you right now, you do everything they tell you to do. Do not play around with this. Wow. You know, and so, but they weren't advertising that about themselves when I knew them.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:01

You know, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:02

And I think you'll be able to now do the same thing for somebody else. Oh, yeah, I don't care. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:08

Yeah. I I, you know, I know what I am. Yeah. I know I know what the Lord has put me in a position to do. I have no I I don't care what the optics are. If someone thinks I'm they can think I'm weak or a weenie or whatever they want to. Um but yeah, that that battle that can get can go on inside your mind, um, it wields so much power that um that you you won't be able to overcome it on your own.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:33

So you you mentioned about Ben the timing of getting to it in in time or addressing it in time uh medically, yeah, the way it was needed to be addressed. Uh so can you can you go too far uh or maybe ignore it, ignore it and then and then have something uh trying to figure out the right question. Get you to a breaking point or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I g well that that what what was the procedure that that Oh that I that I ultimately got trying to open up, yeah, that change the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:08

It's called a uh stilette ganglion block or a neurosympathetic reset. Okay, so can you get so far to where that doesn't work? No.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:17

That thing, like Jackson, I was seeing colors more vividly.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:22

Um when I went home, like uh because that's what I was afraid of, because I was deployed. I was I was afraid I did not want to come home, my family. Yeah. I didn't want them to see me different. Like, what is going on, you know, and I and they would have. They 100% would have. I know they would. I would not have been me. And so after the procedure was done, I remember a few weeks after I got back from that, you know, um, Jessica was coming home one day. Um because I was wound pretty tight. Uh because I I was just unsure. Because that's it touched me in a in a very way in a way that was very different than any of the other trials that I've experienced in my life. It was it was scary. Um, but she was come home one day and and Chloe was with her, and Chloe's the little girl we adopted in 2023. Um and she was like, Is daddy home? And and she goes, Yeah, he's home, baby. He's so nice. You know, and and and you know, when these things are going on, it's not like you're going up to somebody like, hey, you've been with me the last week or so, how have I been doing? Right. You know, right. You're just trying to keep it between the ditches the best you can and not, you know, and and and and incorporate these things you can to make yourself not go off the rails, you know. But that was when I was like, okay, this is different. Like this has really made the impact. Because I could see it, like I told you, I I could see colors more vividly. Um I was um I would I didn't feel uh it was kind of like an emotionally numb, like you were on a medication or something that was numbing you out or something. Um I didn't feel guarded, you know. I felt, you know, I felt uh at ease, you know, in any situation, you know. Um because when I first got home, like there's I only went two places before they flew me out to Texas. You know, I went to uh I went to church once and I took my family to the lake. And that was it. Other than that, I didn't leave my house. I didn't want to.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:23

You know, I did not want to be in public. I didn't, you know what I mean? It was just, it was, it it was one of those, one of those things. So, but anyway, but yeah, neurosympathetic neurosympathetic reset. And yeah, but had I not had the therapy first, like they they do it in that fashion.

unknown 1:26:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:37

Matter of fact, when I got to the place that the my because that one of the things they do with you there is a certain type of therapy where they cause you to recall, they they'll find one of the you know, one of the most difficult things that you've had to deal with, right? And that's what they attack.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:55

Right? And so, but when my my therapist, she was really cool, uh, and she was involved in other organizations that service the military with therapy and stuff like that. She was like, Look, I'm part of this other organization, and I'll drop it in here, it's the Operator Relief Fund. That's the name of the uh organization, the Operator Relief Fund. And uh, and they they specifically deal with like guys in in my in my community. And so, um, but yeah, I would I'd give every dollar I had to them because of what they do. But they made all these things possible. But she said, Look, you you you qualify, you you would be a good candidate for this procedure that they're starting to use now. It's become a little bit more prevalent for people with with what you got going on since 2021. And if you'll consider doing it, I can link you up with this organization and they'll take care of the rest. And and and and I was and I just remembered like when people were calling me and like, hey, do everything they tell you to do. I know you're a medic doc, I know you're you know good at what you do, you've got to be a good patient. You know what it's like having somebody don't want to listen to you. I've been one of 'em, you know what I mean? Scott's kind of being a good leader. Oh yeah, yeah. And I was in that case. And it made all the difference. You know. I took no matter how stupid I thought something was, they were telling me to do, you know, like sit here and think about being on the beach with your feet in the sand or something. You know what I mean? Like, okay. You know. Right, right. No, I did it with a smile on my face. Right. Not a scowl, but anyway. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:22

Was that a phone call? Did you need to get that? No, I'm good. Okay. All right. All right. So la last question about that. They recently passed. I saw something with Trump, uh, the psychedelics or something. Do you know anything about that?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:38

Uh uh, I don't know anything about that bill or that or that administrative action that they're trying to do, but I I I encourage it.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:46

But but but you so you you you're familiar with they get the kind of the use of the therapies of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:51

Yeah. Okay. A hundred percent. Okay. Yeah, and um I think you know, we're we're a little more open-minded, you know. Right. Uh and and I'm not opposed to it if it came to it. You know what I mean? But there are other things using psychedelics and uh, you know, there's ketamine microdosing that they do, and uh even the clinic that I went to in Cleveland, they had that was an option there as well. You know, they step it up to the level, they meet you where you're at to make sure that you get what you need, you know, to be able to live in a life normal, you know. That's good. But yeah, I'm not opposed to that at all. I know that it works. I know, I mean, like when I was in Columbia, uh, for instance, like uh I ran into a guy, an old seventh group guy, um, because that's their AO, Southcom down there. They're out of Eglin Air Force Base, um Seventh uh Special Forces. And uh he was retired, and I ran into him in the embassy and I said, Man, what are you doing down here? You know, he's like, Sivi's though, got you a beard going, like you can get a little chubby, you know. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, I'm just down here busy. He's like, once you once uh once every six months, I'll come down here and take some guys on a Hyahuasca trip.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:56

Um to for PTSD and stuff like that. And he's like, you know, I found a good place that's safe, that's you know what I mean. Yeah. And uh and it it changed his life.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:06

Yeah, I've I can't remember the name, but I've a w I've watched a documentary recently on on the use of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:12

I know Graham Hancock used it on that one of his, or just or just I don't know if he was, you know, under the influence of it when he was talking about it, but uh an ancient um apocalypse on the Netflix uh series that he put together. He's uh he's one of the guys he's he's of the camp that, you know, where was an ancient civilization that was very advanced that we've forgotten about due to like uh drastic changes in the in the earth that were their technologies and stuff like it's like building pyramids or like you know, Machu Picchu, you know, or or uh Tobegli Tempe over in Turkey that they discovered. But yeah, he he he he discussed uh when he was in Peru, you know, Machu Picchu um the benefits of ayahuasca and right their shamans and how they still use it and stuff like that. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:59

Um so uh as we get uh maybe closing this out a little bit, uh I want to I want to ask you about uh family in military life. Yeah. What what's that what's that like raising a family uh in the military?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:16

Yeah, it's been it's been difficult for me, you know what I mean? Because I a lot of people come in the military, they're 18, 19, 20 years old, you know what I mean, and they start their family. And um, you know, I in a lot of ways I was blessed. Uh I'd been married and had an established family. Was getting we were pregnant with my fourth child um when I went to basic training. I didn't even get to come home. I didn't meet Evan until he was six months old. Wow. Um but uh and so that him and Jet, that's all we've over known. You know, Brady and Garrett, you know, they got little black shears, same place, you know, same place as me and stuff for the most part. And um I think it was difficult for them a little bit. Because I remember one time Garrett changed school six times.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:55

By the by the time we got back to Georgia, I want to say. You know.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:59

That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:00

Yeah, and so it well, I guess what you know one thing I will say about it is is like you got your built-in support system everywhere you go. You show up to a new place, you ain't got a clue about the area, the people, or nothing. Um, and the church is always there too.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:17

Yeah, uh almost a double support, yeah, so to speak, moving into a new area.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:21

And I think the unity in military wards is very unique because of that also. Now, if you're tied into a ward that has par park members that have been there their whole lives in military, they probably don't care for us too much. We'll show up and stay two or three years and then leave. Right. You know what I mean? And so um they don't get kind of get to know you like you should. But um, but I mean I've we've we have enduring friendships um that we have made as a result of that. So it hasn't always been easy. I wish, you know, there's a part of me that wishes that I never joined just for my children, you know, because I got to run and play on 60 acres, you know what I mean, my whole life. And and you know, I've it's been a chore to get to teach them how to hunt, how to fish. Um, you know. Uh but on the other side of the coin, uh it's allowed them to really get to see the world.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:12

That's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:13

You know, be exposed to a lot of different cultures to be able to speak from experience on topics that would be theoretical to them if they were just born and raised in black share. Right. You know, they know what it's like to, you know, walk the Roman streets of Italy and and and be up in the you know, the Dolomites or the in the Swedish Alps and in Germany and you know, a lot of the historical things that I've only got to see when I was in school and always wondered what it would be like to stand in those places. Um and so I think it's enriched their life, and I hope that they have been benefited and blessed by it from that regard. Um, you know, they've they've become vagabonds, not by choice, but which which has probably allowed them to be able to be okay with venturing off, and which is why I got one in Dallas and I got one in Chicago, you know, and I got Jet who's wanting to follow my footsteps, you know. And so where I had planned on just doing 20 and getting out, if he goes in, I'll probably stay around long enough to follow his butt and keep him out of trouble a little bit, you know, and and uh because if he does what I think he's wanting to do, he's gonna he's gonna go head first into it, you know. And so of course I want him to serve missions. Yeah, you know, you know that. Um, you know, that's one one one one regret. It's it's caused me to have to learn a lot of things in my life um a lot later. Um that I that I that I know that they um will benefit from that I've seen, you know, people like you guys I look up to like you and and uh and others um that that have faithfully and honorably served the Lord for and sacrificed two years of their life consecutively. Um, you know, and so um but but but anyway, but my kids have been exposed to all those people too. You know what I mean? Most of the people aren't, you know, the military guys, and so they've seen how they've seen also how to do it the right way. There's a lot of examples that they've seen of guys around me that do it the wrong way, come in the military, make a lot of mistakes and and aren't sound spiritually and principles and stuff like that. A lot of people get taught how to be men in the military, believe it or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:25

These these values and principles are foreign to them. Yeah, they weren't taught these things. Right, yeah. You know, you know, honor, integrity, self-sacrifice. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:37

Um Yeah, that that that's one of the things one of the things that I that I love about about the military. We talked we were talking about structure in the very beginning and and those things about you know becoming becoming a man. And uh, you know, I think that the church has a has a wonderful organization, um uh a built-in men's group, yeah, you know, which I think we fall short in and really, really are utilizing that that built-in men's group, yeah. Um and really teaching every that that's the great thing about about the church, everything is there to teach uh young men how to be men, how to be grown men, how to be fathers and husbands and everything. But I think that's where that's why we emphasize the the gospel in the home um, you know, so much, because that's really where the where the teaching takes place. Yeah. Uh, you know, and and but but like you say, there's a there's a lot of people that either don't have fathers in their home that end up joining the military and then they learn what it's really like about being a man and the self-sacrifice and everything. Um but I think I think military uh members of the Church of Jesus Christ, Lattery Saints, in my mind I think they got the best of both worlds. Yeah. Uh I j I j I don't know, I j I just see it that way. Uh uh an active member of the church and an active military guy. Um because I I once said to my my brother-in-law Chris about again about the desire to serve and kind of wishing I had a served and I would have wish I'd have served my country. That's what I told him. I said, I wish I had a cur served my country. And his response to me surprised me, but it also kind of lifted me up too. He says, He says, You served your mission, right? I said, Yeah. He says, You served your country. Heck yeah. He says, You're out there uh helping people become better individuals, which in turn become better citizens of their community. You know, he says, You you've served your country by doing that. You may not have worn a military uniform, but you've served your country.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:42

Yeah, the community people don't realize like we get we get bombarded with information from a national world scope all the time that have zero impact on what's going on on the street right here.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

That I live on. You know, like so I think there's a lot of put a lot of places in this world where people have lived for 10 years, don't even know who their neighbor's name is. You know what I mean? And that's just kind of foreign almost. Uh I think that we get kind of locked in this this space. We live in a place and we have zero involvement. Yeah. You know, what goes on to my left and to my right, you know, to make our community. That service right there is far more important than anything you could have ever done in the military. That right there alone. What you're doing right now, this, you know, the impact and the reach that you're gonna get from this, and you know, you may you may not know it in this life. Somebody probably come up to you in the life after and say, brother, how am I telling you how impactful what you did? You know, I followed your what you probably thought was some little, you know, uh Bush League podcast that you were running, you know. Uh, but the content that you kept can continue to put on there was the best that you could find and do, and it you know, and allowed me to it hurt helped me in a lot of a lot of ways, you know. And we never know the impacts that we'll reach when it comes to those kind of things. Um and that's what makes us life kind of cool in a lot of ways too. That's right. You know. You think that you I think that I am what uh you know, just what I've done. You know. And uh we'll get to see, I think, at some point, the impact that you know, the the web, you know, what those ripples and stuff like that. What they've reached, you know. And uh and we sell ourselves short a lot, I think. And and and and I think that that hampers our efforts sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:28

Because what does it matter that I do this? Right. You know, but if you don't think that it matters, you know um, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:38

Speaking of the imposter syndrome, uh, I think about that some that that that that tends to creep into my head a little bit, you know, you speak with with this podcast, you know, like who am I to be holding this this little podcast, interviewing people, um, and and trying to trying to share that. But but like you say, I think I think everybody in this world will have somebody come up to them. Uh if if you're trying to live a good life and do good things, people will have uh will come up to them in this li uh after this life and say, thank you for for this, thank you for that. Uh, because I know I know I have people in my life that have since passed on and what have you, that have played an effect in my life that I can't wait for the opportunity to and s and share with them what they did for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:21

Yeah. Well, I mean, just doing what you're like just your example with this, uh use this podcast for example, I guess. Uh yeah, refer back to it again. But like I I'll say one of the greatest things, one of the one of the biggest blessings that I think I've got personally from serving is being learning how to fail, right? Uh because you will fail a bunch when you join the military because you're, you know, I've not always been the stud, but I've you know, the Lord's blessed me with a body that I've never really been the dud, you know, but I've always put forth the effort, and I've always put forth the effort and I've come up short a lot, man. Like now I've my kids are probably telling you, like, heck no, my daddy's like, you know, he's a junk master, he's airborne, you know, he's pathfinder, you know, I'll sell these things, right? They don't see what what it took to get that. Right. And the fact that you're even attempting this, right? Like, you know how many people go through their military career and say, you know, man, I was I wish I'd have I wish I'd have done this or that when I was in. I wish, you know what I mean? Like, they're just afraid to try it. Why are you afraid to try it? Why are what are you afraid of? You're gonna fail. Fail.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:27

Failure.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:27

And what does that mean? You know what I mean? Like, and people think have the definition of that so much, I think, is like a defining moment or something. And it was for me, you know? But it's sort of like I I got to the point I I've I mean I I tried a bunch of different things, right? Because I've always wanted I've always tried to be in the units that I was surrounded. I got to the point where I wanted to be surrounded by dudes that were better than me.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:51

I did not care what that made me look like because I knew that I was gonna show up and I was gonna give my best, and uh eventually what they got is gonna rub off because I'm gonna learn from them. Because I'm gonna get to hang around them, you know what I mean? And they have to let me be there because I'm assigned here.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:07

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:08

They can't run me off. It's the same way I feel about church. Yeah. You know, I'm coming. The Lord has put it in me, you know, and as I look back, it's it's such a blessing. You know, I always look down on myself because I didn't feel like I matched up. I didn't feel like I, you know, I could do it as good as somebody else that I saw doing it that was just had a spiritual gift or you know, or it was a talent that they brought with them from the from the premortal life. You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:33

One of the Satan's greatest tools is the tool of comparison, right? Oh my gosh. Comparison is the thief of joy. 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:42

And uh that's what I guess I was getting at is I've learned to be okay with my best. That's right. Yeah. I know that if I walked away, I gave one, I I laid it all out there. I used every like I can honestly say it. I did the best job that I could either in that competition and or this thing, you know what I mean? Because I've competed in some pretty marquee things, you know, and not one of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:06

But man, what did I I learned some things about me, Jackson, that I never would have been exposed to had I not put myself in a position to fail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:16

Yeah, you I think the the only time we fail is when we stop trying, right? When we if if there's something inside of us that wants to try something and we're too scared to try it because we failed, then we failed. Yeah. Right. But you may go and try that thing and you may fail, but if you get back up and try something else, yeah. That's that that's not failing. That's that's growing, that's moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:43

Yeah, but but it doesn't look like it sometimes. No, and it don't feel like it. It definitely don't feel like it. Oh, especially if you've trained up really hard and and prepared really the you know really well, you know, to what you you know expect would make you successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:59

And then you come up short, it's like, well, what was all this for?

unknown 1:44:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:02

What is this about? I did everything I was supposed to do. What do you mean? Uh you know what I mean? Like, I'm still walking away from achieving this thing that I've I've sought after. Um but yeah, no, I mean I I've I have it it's allowed for me, it's allowed me to continue to learn about me.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:23

And and and and not to be okay with failing, you know what I mean? Uh right. Yeah, that means that's a good thing. But in a sense, it has. Yeah. At least I'm not still not okay with failing, okay? But it but it's not such an influence, it's not, it doesn't have a voice at the table of decisions.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:40

Right. Well, and I think what you're you're not okay, you're not okay with failing, but what you're even more not okay with is not even trying.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:48

That right there, because I'm definitely not gonna learn anything. I'm definitely not gonna get better, you know. Um, holy crap. Yeah. That's good stuff. I mean, I'm an old guy, you know, like every everybody jokes about that in the military, but you know, they're like, man, I mean sometimes I'll be like, man, I thought you were about 34 years old. Right. Bro, look at my ID car. I'm a 79 baby. You know what I'm saying? That's right. But they're like, oh, okay, you still get after it, you know, and I but but I mean like the age is a number thing is something that that uh that I'll point out too. It really is, you know. I think that when we allow ourselves to fall into traps of thinking um it lent it really does limit us from reaching it, we reaching our maximum potential. You know, and I'm not trying to be an example of that, you know. But holy cow, like I'm still having fun. You know, I'm still enjoying this. I'm still, you know, like I don't always like getting up at 4.45 in the morning and going and like doing something that I'm gonna, you know, is gonna make me, you know, go down the path of life choices that brought me to this point in time. Right. Why I'm here right now, because it happens a lot, you know, because but but but you know again, like I said, I know what I know what the results are gonna be from it. You know, I know what it's gonna I know what's gonna I know what it's gonna turn me into. Yeah. I love Dick Sabin talking about uh how much he got away from uh after winning a few championships, he was no longer interested in in that he he was more interested in the process. Process, that's right, yep. Yeah. Those things I could I that would be like, what is he talking about? You know what I mean? Unless I had, you know, have had some experiences in my life that could allow me to understand what that means.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:32

I gave a I gave a talk a couple weeks ago in church that uh I referenced Sabanites. And they were uh the for the so this past uh college football playoff, the final four teams all head coaches were Sabanites. And they were and what he emphasized was the process.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:50

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:51

When we when we focus on the end result, you're most likely not going to get there. You focus on the process.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:58

And that gets you to your end result that that that that you're seeking.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but it takes some humility, man. Yeah. Even to even to do what I said, there's a lot of people that are afraid to be around people better than them. Right. You know what I mean? Right. Like that right there in itself. It allows me to hang those Sabanites aren't Sabanites because they're doing what they were sunk. They know it works. They're not as good as him. Yeah, yeah. You know, but he ain't around no more, so they're just you know, they still got those same philosophies and you know, and and and approaches to the game that is is uh that can't be, you know, it can be it can be replicated, you know, but um but that that's what I try to do. You know what I mean? I I you know, uh again, I'm not the stud, but man, I get to I get to be around people that push me in ways that um you know I wouldn't get if I was just the best guy in the unit, you know, or whatever. You know, yeah, you you you always I don't want to be in first place anymore. It takes the desire away from wanting to be in first.

unknown 1:47:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:59

You know, I ain't got nobody to chase if I'm in first.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:02

You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:48:03

Yeah, Kirby Smart talks about, and others talk about uh it being a it being a privilege to be at the top and being kind of being chased and being being pushed and everything. Uh you know, people are always kind of constantly chomping at your heels. They said, but it's so much harder to stay at the top because there's so many people going at you.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:23

Yeah, I mean, that's why I was like, I tell all the Alabama fans, because I'm a diehard Georgia fan. You know, my daddy went there, and I know you're you're an alumni uh as well, but like man, I I you know that's why I love Nick Saban so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:37

He made us what we became. Yeah. If it wasn't for Nick Saban being across the Alabama border over there, I don't know if Georgia would have won a back-to-back national championship. Right, yeah. You know, for sure. I agree with that. I don't know, man. You know, that's why uh, you know, as long as y'all answer my phone calls, I'll be calling people like you, Charlie, Steven, you know, and Barry Bennett, and you know, everybody that still is don't mind acknowledging that they're my friends.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:05

All right, yeah. Well, uh, got a uh a couple of closing questions for you before we do these. Uh anything else on your mind that that we hadn't hadn't talked about that you that you have on your mind to share?

SPEAKER_00 1:49:17

No, I think, you know, I'm I'm of I'm of the position that things play out the way they're supposed to. I feel uh I feel this has been it's been entertaining to me. Yeah. Might not get two views, me and you, but I'm okay with that too. Which it'll be more than that, because I'll probably go back and watch it a couple times. But there you go. I'm gonna send it to my kids and stuff too, you know. Um this is recording a little bit of my life um as well. But but no, I this has been uh this has been good. I've enjoyed it. I appreciate your questions. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:49

All right, so a couple a couple of closing questions here. So if a young man has a choice, graduates high school, he really wants to go on a mission, he really wants to go to the military. Which one?

SPEAKER_00 1:50:00

Go on a mission.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:02

Why? A mission is going to teach you things that are going to put you light years ahead of your peers when you enter the service. You're going to learn things on your mission that it's going to take about 10 years for you to learn if you don't. And so if you want to be in a position to be very successful, I mean I got a buddy that, you know, lovingly referred to members of the church as the Mormon military underground. He was a non-member.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:31

Um, you know, uh, it just, I don't know. Uh, because, you know, my bishop may very well be the brigade commander. You know what I mean? Okay. It's sort of like, I need something done. That's right. Like, bishop. You know, not hey sir or whatever. Um, but no, uh, it is it's gonna instill in you the disciplines that are gonna be required for you to be successful, that you're not gonna have to learn the two ways that the military will teach you, you know, which is by repetition. Or there's two ways. Yeah, there's the right way, or again.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:08

Okay. Repetition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:11

So it's gonna be by repetition, blunt force trauma, one of the two. You know what I mean? So you but you know, you're gonna be you're gonna be established already in some core disciplines that as you enter the military service uh are not only gonna be a blessing to you, but are gonna cause you to stand out to those who are going to have to pass the torch off to somebody in a few years. You're gonna be the guy, you know. You're already gonna be used to, you know, um getting up whether you feel like it. You know, just doing that. You're gonna learn that on your mission. That's right, absolutely. You know? Yeah. Um, but and so you're not gonna run into some of the pitfalls that that that look poorly on you, you know, um, as they refer to as, you know, um uh behavior that's unbecoming. You know what I mean? Because there is a standard, and you're gonna live by a standard for two years that, you know, basic basic training will teach you so much. You got 12, depending on your MOS, 21 weeks of it. Right. You're not gonna you got two years of that coming into it. They're trying to instill those standards and those disciplines into people that that don't, that that those concepts are foreign to. You know, and and you will be able to look back because you're gonna have hard times. Um, you're gonna experience times that you know you're going to come to the Lord with Heavenly Father, um there is no way anything is about to happen good right now without you being involved. And I absolutely need you to be involved right now. Um, and so you're gonna experience some of those things on your mission. That attitude to your to your God is going to be second nature.

SPEAKER_05 1:53:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:01

Uh you're not going to be forced into the situations where you're just going to have to fail into a position of um success. Right. Um so yeah, uh, there is nothing that is going to you are not going to get ahead of the game by go joining the military first over serving the Lord.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:22

Yeah. I I think I think serving a mission, it it lays it's a it's a it lays the spiritual foundation for for eternity um that I think that that we need uh in life that families need in life. Um so yeah, I'm I I I'm with you on on serving serving the mission uh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:45

I'm looking forward to the opportunity to get to serve my with my wife.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:48

That's yeah, absolutely. That's that's that uh that's a good that's an exciting thing to think about eventually one day.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:56

Um all right, so now uh young man or young woman has returned from their mission and now they're thinking about military service as well, but they're not they're uncertain about the ability to serve in the church while while being in the military. Is there what's the what's that like?

SPEAKER_00 1:54:18

That's hard. Um I had a really probably the coolest thing that's ever happened to me in my life outside of my family environment. Um where uh the Lord used me um to bless some members that aren't you know, they're they're South, they're from South America. Okay. Um I got interesting. So uh and and I I got, you know, and I at the time I was called as uh I was called into the state young men's presidency, and so uh I thought I was gonna get released. Um, but the the the the brother who's the president of the young men's presidency kept me. Even though I was gonna be gone for six, nine months, and you know, I mean, and including the train up to go with it, you know, he felt like he felt inspired to do so. I've had to do a lot of things via videos or um share experiences, you know, over FaceTime and stuff like that. Yeah. Um, so it to someone growing up in the church that wasn't accustomed to seeing someone having to do that or whatever, it made me feel like I probably wasn't doing the best job I could. You're gonna you're gonna hit you're gonna hit some crossroads uh with that. It's it's but but I will tell you this um the Lord's gonna the Lord's gonna be able to arrange things um to make sure that uh you're able to meet your responsibilities and your obligations. Um so if it's a concern that you're gonna be able to serve in the church, um you know what you learn on your mission is gonna be uh huge because it's gonna allow you to find out uh how to do a lot of those things to all of Heavenly Father's children while you're having to be gone or off on training. And it's gonna cause people to gravitate to you and ask you a lot of questions. Um you know, like they always say, the saying there's no atheists in a foxhole, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:11

Um, you know, there's only you you there's a few times where people are going to be able to see how cool, calm, and collected you are in the midst of things that you should have no business being okay with. Um and it makes them want to know.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:26

What makes you tick, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:56:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:29

Uh so though you might not be serving in your branch or ward or stake as officially as you would like to, you know, um, what you bring to the table for the Lord catches all of the outliers, all of the things that, you know, um that allow his work to still proceed forward and go forth.

SPEAKER_04 1:56:51

I I I love that. I uh there's the the Lord's vineyard isn't just contained within the ward boundaries or or the church building. Yeah. You know, so there's you do learn that.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:04

Yeah. And that in that ex with that experience. I mean, but you're not gonna be a traditional you know, a bishop that's gonna get to be there, you know, but but also too, you got counselors.

SPEAKER_03 1:57:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:18

You know, uh the Lord ain't putting you in those positions to cause you to fail to make you feel guilty or bad if you can't be there every single time you want to.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:26

But yeah, um I think if you get if you if you have a desire, if you have a desire to serve uh and you're in the military, uh it may not be traditional, but you'll have ways to to serve in and and some some kind of capacity. Yeah. Uh last question, you have a a favorite scripture or anything that you want to share on the top of your head?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:50

Man, my go-to is always ether 1227. Okay. Um, because uh, you know, I've I've I've been I've been proof, you know, many times in my life that the Lord can take a crooked stick and draw a straight line. Um that scripture always has always been a profound underlying reminder of you know being okay with being with being imperfect and and and making mistakes. And you know, as long as your heart's in the right place and you're not just doing it, you know, predatorily or or or sinning, you know, cre you know, uh committing sin and you know, feeding yourself. Um but yeah, um I don't know, it's been a lot, it's been a lot going on. It's been it's been a last this past year has been pretty wild for me. You know, I've I've I've done a lot of uh exploring, but I'll I'll share this scripture. Your your favorite scripture, is it still found in the book of Halaman?

SPEAKER_02 1:58:46

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:47

It is that's it, yeah. Okay. Um let's see.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:53

Is that a quad there? Is that is it is that is this just the Bible? Is it just the Bible? Okay, I've got a quad. Here I go.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:03

I love going back, you know, I suck at the old testament and understanding it and stuff like that. But I love I love that the church forces me to go back through and read it. Um But yeah, no, I just I love it. Um and if men come unto me, I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they uh that they may be made humble. And my grace is efficient for all men that humble themselves before me. For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then I will make weak things become strong unto them. Yeah, um it's gonna be hard for me to like to top it. I mean, there's been moments in my life where the Lord has reminded me of certain scriptures and dark times that have given me exactly what I've needed, you know. Um, but over and over again getting to watch him literally do that thing, because I mean, like, for me, God is everything, right? It's not it's not no like, you know, I don't go into any, you know, it allows me to be able to go into any situation, any environment, you know, and know that, you know, I might not like the outcome or what happens during it, you know. Uh, but it's, you know, it I yeah, I'm I'm it's only happening because that there's there's something for me to learn, or I need to endure something, or need to practice some of the things that he's he's tried to teach me and still in me to endure it well. Um, you know, but but but nine times out of ten, it's it's it's you know, but it's always refining me, you know. Um and I've had some things that would have easily that that I I've acquired through my poor choices that would that were supposed to take me to my grave. 100%. Um, and they were beyond me. And because of those things and the way that I watched him uh remove them from my life. Um you know, I got a brother that's uh calls himself an atheist. And uh there's a lot of times where he's able to just make a case for things that I don't have an answer for, Jackson.

SPEAKER_03 2:01:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:16

I'm not um you know, I'm not a guy that's gonna be able to sit there and I don't like Bible bashing anyway, I hate contention.

SPEAKER_05 2:01:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:25

There's nothing that good that comes from it. Um, you know, but you know, I can always walk away from our conversations with a smile on my face without a you know, without my confidence in my God being diminished because of the things that I have watched him do that defy any explanation, right um preserved my life, have taken removed things from my life that I could not remove, that due to poor decisions, I invited in that would um that that was supposed to cause me to to die from. You know what I mean? Um and so um that scripture right there, uh you know, I it's kind of hard. Like, what's your it's like ask somebody what their favorite song is or something, you know, again, you know, if you if you love the Lord and you've tried to understand him and incorporate everything you know how to in your life and have studied the scriptures in order to help you do that. Um it's difficult, you know, to be able to take you down. But that's right. That one right there, um that's gonna uh that's gonna allow me to have uh a certain reverence when I'm allowed to be able to be in his presence. Um that, you know, we we you we all have things that we're going that you know, these thorns in our side, like Paul had, uh, that he prayed thrice to have removed, but the Lord would not remove. Right. Um and he did that because he loved him. Yeah, he gave him something that he could not overcome on his own.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:09

Because he loved him, because it would keep him close to him.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:14

Because being close to him is the only way that he would be relieved of whatever bondage that thing was. And there's arguments about what that thing was. Um I don't really care because we all have them.

SPEAKER_05 2:03:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:27

And that was what we needed to get from get from that. You know, if it was if it was, you know, known what that thorn in his side was or that weakness that he had, I think that it would make a lot of people feel like that they don't they're not included in the blessings that are associated with Paul's attitude toward it.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:43

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:44

Um but uh but anyway.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:47

That's a that's a good one. Uh the I can't think of the of the scripture in Corinthians or something, uh, about not being given anything that you can't handle. Yeah, right. Uh but if we try and handle it on our own, there's probably plenty of things that we can't handle, right? Yeah, but it's designed for us to turn to the Lord to rely upon him for that strength.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:18

Yeah. Um I mentioned with Brother Porter that uh that when he was talking about how he wanted his children to experience as much hell as possible.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:25

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's uh that's an interesting want for your children. I definitely want my children to go through some hard times, but uh wanting them to experience as much as hell as possible is uh pretty pretty strong.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:37

Yeah, I've had the opportunity to get to serve as a temple uh worker um this year. Um something kind of got put on my heart uh back in January. I've you know I live close to a temple now, closest I've ever lived in my life. Um, but uh, you know, it it's allowed me to be able to sup from the blessings that are that are that are um extended toward the patrons that go through the church uh the the the temple. And you know, um and something that stood out to me a lot is you know, your you know the certain blessings are extended to you and and you know and and from head to toe. And uh one of what stood out to me here recently is um you know that um your shoulders may uh bear the burdens. The wording is that will be placed upon them.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:33

It's not like hey, you may have some bad time. No, no, no, listen, okay, listen. We're we're going to we're gonna extend this specific blessing to you because this is happening. Whether you like it.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:46

Against your will. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:50

And that will be placed upon them. That's right. Very good. Well, all right, man. Well, hey, thank you so much for coming in. Um, we could probably sit here and go for another two hours. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:01

Pleasure's all mine. That's right, yeah. And I'm I'll just say that I'm honored to be included in this, and uh, I hope that more than anything else that uh I'm uh I'm allowed to benefit your efforts because I I admire you for what you're doing. I've also times thought about man, it'd be cool to be a podcaster, but I was like, dude, I'd run out of stuff to talk about in five minutes. You know what I mean? Like and it ain't cool enough to have anybody want to sit in front of me and have a conversation with me.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:28

Yeah, no, it's I've so I've you know, as people can do these uh these solo, these solo shows, and I've thought about doing different topics, and I do every once in a while, yeah, but I couldn't do that every week and and have something just because I I'm not very good at just kind of running my mouth and just having the gift of gab. I don't I don't have that. So I I enjoy sitting down with people uh and until the code showed up.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:52

That's through the conversation where it needs to go. I just been good, been good.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:56

All right, man. Well, hey, thank you so much, and until next time, you keep on striving.